Posted on 12/15/2018 5:13:18 PM PST by ebb tide
Where does the whole “For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours now and for ever” part come from? I don’t remember learning the prayer this way as a child (RC) and it’s not in the bible, so where did it come from? (If I am sounding very stupid & ignorant i apologize for that!)
Is he going to change this Bible text next?
"Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil." Matthew 4:1
It is in the Bible. The Lord’s Prayer is in both Matthew 6 and Luke 11, and while they’re not found in Luke 11, those words are found in the version in Matthew 6.
However, this famous song version of the prayer does include it:
I’m not Catholic but knew that Catholics usually didn’t say the doxology. I didn’t know, though, that it isn’t included in Catholic Bibles or that it falls into the category of deserving to be left out of Scripture according to modern, largely secular-minded scholars like those who put together the NIV. I did just look into this question a bit by reading that Catholic article and then also this one:
https://av1611.com/kjbp/faq/holland_mt6_13.html
I can see why it was included in the KJV, and I’m certainly going to continue saying it.
“We must remember that prayerful discernment must be born of a readiness to listen: to the Lord and to others, and to reality itself, which always challenges us in new ways. (Gaudete et Exsultate, 172)”
This is where there’s a real distinct difference between Catholic and Bible-believing Christian thinking. While I can’t say for sure that it wasn’t taken out of context in this case, it does represent the sort of comments that I’ve come across many times from Catholics. According to what the Bible teaches, we should be listening to other people and reality itself in addition to listening to the Lord. Yet, also according to God’s Word, there shouldn’t be a laundry list like this of “listen to the Lord, other people and reality,” as though we can choose to listen to one sometimes, and another at another time, and the third on other occasions, and on and on — and every choice dependent upon what strikes us as being true. So while we are to listen to others and to “reality,” we’re ultimately to listen to what God says about what we’ve heard from others and on what we take to be reality, and follow His voice.
Lord's Prayer:It is not considered, however, to be part of the "Our Father", and is not recited at other times the "Our Father" is prayed, such as when praying the Rosary.Priest: Let us pray with confidence to the Father in the words our Savior gave us.
All: Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
Priest: Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ.
All: For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever.
By the way, there are many other English translations of the Bible besides the NIV which completely omit that doxology (including the "Revised Standard Version"), and many others like the NASB include it within brackets, usually with a footnote explaining that the phrase is completely omitted in many manuscripts and in many other translations.
Yes, I do know that. I believe that somewhere it’s mentioned here in this thread or one of the the links that it’s said at masses. I’ve been to quite a few and also listened to hundreds of Catholic masses on the radio some years back. I’ve also heard many rosaries on the radio, having had a Catholic family member. And a couple of times in the past, when I’ve prayed the Lord’s prayer with Catholics, a couple were reluctant to go beyond “but deliver us from evil.” I should have clarified that I was aware that sometimes Catholics don’t say what’s called the doxology, while as far as I know and have experienced, Protestants always do.
I’m also aware that the RSV editors made many similar decisions as did those of the NIV and also the NASB. If I recall correctly, both the RSV and NASB have had some acceptance among Catholics. For awhile I read the NKJV, which I believe also makes some of the same decisions, and I spent some time looking into the claims made before deciding to go back to the KJV.
Why was St. Michael’s Prayer dropped following the Novus Ordo? Any idea? What could possibly make the devil happier?
That phrase...the doxology or praise ... comes from early liturgical recitations of the Lord’s Prayer. It’s not really part of the prayer as it is found in Scripture but was said to finish that part of the liturgy in which the prayer was recited. There were actually several different doxologies (and the Orthodox still use some of them) but this is the one that has come down to us in English.
When Vatican II put the liturgy into the vernacular, they for some reason wanted to include this doxology, which was recognized by English speakers but totally unknown to the rest of the Catholic world. However, all the vernacular masses in any language now have a translation of it.
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