Posted on 02/12/2019 9:41:27 AM PST by NRx
Now these Roman cults. I would expect them to be the opposite of Jesus. Jesus never prosecuted anybody, appeared to eschew earthly riches or political power, and he never build some grand buildings to his glory.
So if I was looking for a Roman based cult, i would look for things like a fabulously wealthy organization, in grand buildings, and they would have a pack of vestal virgins maybe. And a basement full of rifles. They might have a few jail cells just in case. And they would also have the form of a political power and would always be involved in government.
There must be -one- like that. It should stand out in stark contrast to Jesus. This is a real brain teaser...
“Without Apostolic Succession, the Church would of been consumed by heretics and Gnostics running wild all over the Roman Empire “
And how are you assured you are not “consumed by heretics” when they are powerful members of a hierarchy that interacts heavily with an empire based in Rome?
Your ignorance of the “pre-Constantine” Church isn't that sharp from what you have posted. Even after Constantine, the Bishop of Rome took centuries to get to the point you are wailing at.
Are you saying some human man, who puts his pants on just like me, is somehow specially endowed by god to discern the wolves just because he chose the career of being a priest... and that we peons should just trust THEIR judgement over our own?
The problem is that we mere humans can clearly see who the wolves are that wanna put the big britches on us. Tricks that worked on the masses in 600 AD are a lot harder to pull off in the information age.
2 TIMOTHY 2:15 would answer the question.
“...the sheep must verify the shepherds?”
Do you have an alternative in mind? What sheep doesn’t have to verify the shepherds?
“BEWARE the leaven of the Pharisees.” “YOU shall tell the tree by its fruit.” (paraphrasing)
In response to #21, look up the definition of cult concerning that time and get back to me.
You think everything pre-codification of the Bible just magically happened without any work of humans who sometimes had to shake Roman authorities (While dealing/correcting all kinds of heretics) until the certain emperors died and were replaced by another emperor who could care less about followers of Christ.
Only if you think the sheep are also, simultaneously, shepherds.
Tell you what, was cheap written paper (As we know it now and where the Chinese just started that process of inventing that decades before Christ died) accessible between the years of say 42AD to 312 AD? Was the Bible formulated? Who had discernment then? Who knew the information to separate the wolves from the sheep at that time?
“How about, rather, that God has chosen for us to need man in our relationship with Himself.”
Nope. We approach God through Jesus, not through some other man who has better standing with God. That’s not to say a christian more experienced than you may not lead you, but It does mean every man approaches god as an equal. A man in the pew of some small baptist church is not any less before god than some Bishop or Cardinal or Pope.
Works really well unless your goal is gaining control of people.
Constantine...
:: How do you think the Word was spread and the integrity protected? ::
Not inclusive of each other but to answer each individually, the Holy Spirit.
Is man tasked with verifying the work of the Holy Spirit?
Do we now say that the sheep must verify the shepherds?
Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. — They even double-checked Paul.
One of the threads throughout the New Testament is “Be sure you can discern the true Gospel.” If the sheep know the Shepherd’s voice, they will be able to avoid being led astray. This is especially important today when there are hundreds of varieties of Christian churches, some of which have great variations in doctrine.
Matt 7:22,23 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evil-doers!’
The sheep are all of mankind under the great shepherd Christ. Priests are part of mankind. Apostolic succession is simply a manmade POLITICAL ruse to provide priests some perception of elitism.
Unless, of course, you think that God WANTED a hierarchical political structure for his church.
Then, to paraphrase Geo. Orwell, “Some priests are more equal than others.”
How does a notion of Apostolic Succession square with the New Testament Covenant with Jesus?
Jesus saith unto him,
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
“Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”
Saint John chapter 20, verse 23
So, what if the sinners’ sins are retained in this context? Was that not an avenue, established by Jesus our Lord, for a man to reach Himself, whereby had the sins BEEN forgiven then in heaven the sins would be forgiven and the sinner forgiven and gained entrance into heaven?
The constituents do in a Constitutional democratic republic. And in the one I live in, the representatives are re-validated and/or replaced on a regular free-will basis.
Think that out as regarding its advantages in a world of fallen humans.
Respectfully submitted.
If Peter was the first pope, why did the church start picking non Jewish successors as popes?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.