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To: Antoninus

And yet, not a word about Purgatory from the Apostles in the New Testament. How sad that Peter, Paul, John, James, Matthew, etc. all missed this important doctrine.

So great that later Christians were so much wiser than them, and finally got it....


3 posted on 03/13/2019 6:45:05 AM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: AnalogReigns

“And yet, not a word about Purgatory from the Apostles in the New Testament.”

How many words in the NT from the Apostles are about the doctrines of the Trinity?

Canon of scripture?


6 posted on 03/13/2019 6:57:59 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: AnalogReigns
And yet, not a word about Purgatory from the Apostles in the New Testament.

Another one who didn't read. Gregory the Great cites both Christ himself and Saint Paul in his writings on Purgatory. See above.
10 posted on 03/13/2019 7:16:03 AM PDT by Antoninus ("In Washington, swamp drain you.")
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To: AnalogReigns
How sad that Peter, Paul, John, James, Matthew, etc. all missed this important doctrine.

Missed it did they?

"For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay stubble: Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."
What does saved as by fire mean?

When Christ says in Matt 12:32 "but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come", what does that imply?

17 posted on 03/13/2019 8:01:19 AM PDT by Claud
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To: AnalogReigns
And yet, not a word about Purgatory from the Apostles in the New Testament. How sad that Peter, Paul, John, James, Matthew, etc. all missed this important doctrine.

Or Immaculate conception, or assumption, or a Pope, or a Christian priesthood, or a Christian Priesthood that must be manned by unmarried effeminate men, or nuns, or transubstantiation....

20 posted on 03/13/2019 8:16:37 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (...the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by Whom the world has been crucified to me.)
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To: AnalogReigns

Lol ... does this fallen under the category ‘traditions’?


39 posted on 03/13/2019 10:36:16 AM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: AnalogReigns
And yet, not a word about Purgatory from the Apostles in the New Testament. How sad that Peter, Paul, John, James, Matthew, etc. all missed this important doctrine.

They did, although supporters labor to extrapolate support for it based on principle out of text which do not teach it in the light of context or that of clear texts which teach on the same subject, as has been shown thus far.

RCs basically argue that since there is chastisement for sins that have been forgiven, and that no unclean thing can enter Heaven then there has to be a postmortem expiation and purgation in order to enter Heaven .

But which is not what is actually taught in Scripture, which is that believers are already spiritually seated with Christ in Heaven and will be with Him forever at death, and the the only form of chastisement after death is the judgment seat of Christ, but which occurs after the return of the Lord who then shall "change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." (Philippians 3:21)

Fr again, wherever Scripture clearly speak of the next conscious reality for believers then it is with the Lord, (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) Note in the latter case all believers were assured that if the Lord returned, which they expected in their lifetime, so would they “ever be with the Lord,” though they were still undergoing growth in grace, as was Paul. (Phil. 3:7f)

And the next transformative experience that is manifestly taught is that of being like Christ in the resurrection. (1Jn. 3:2; Rm. 8:23; 1Co 15:53,54; 2Co. 2-4) At which time is the judgment seat of Christ, which is the only suffering after this life, which does not begin at death, but awaits the Lord's return, (1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Timothy. 4:1,8; Revelation 11:18; Matthew 25:31-46; 1 Peter 1:7; 5:4) and is the suffering of the loss of rewards (and the Lord's displeasure) due to the manner of material one built the church with, which one is saved despite the loss of such, not because of. (1 Corinthians 3:8ff)

Faced with the fact that Scripture clearly and substantially teaches on the believers experience in RCs after this life but which Purgatory is not, then (in basically admitting this) RC resort to arguing that just as the Trinity is not clearly taught, nor what Scripture all consists of, then Purgatory cannot be rejected on the basis of lack of clear teaching.

However, this is simply a specious comparison, for the fact is that Jesus Christ being God by nature along with the Father is very clearly and substantially taught in Scripture , and the Spirit also as a person. And which would result in clear contradiction if this was not the nature of God . Thus evangelicals have been foremost defenders of the Triune being of God.

In contrast, Purgatory is what contradicts clear teaching as regards believers status and experience after this life, while the attempts to extrapolate support for it are shown to be invalid, and are more like the attempts of cultists those who deny the deity of Christ. And indeed, in both cases the reason they must contend for it is because their leadership requires belief in it based upon the premise of ensured veracity.

As far as the canon of Scripture not being completely manifest in Scripture, and thus removing the objection to Purgatory not being manifestly taught, this is an attempt to compare what was progressively ascertained based on evidence with a doctrine that is not based on the weight of evidence.

Scripture is revelation out of which doctrines come, and ascertaining both men, writing and doctrines as being of God is based upon evidential warrant. Souls knew men such as Moses and Elijah were of God based on what was manifest, and writings were also ascertained as being of God due to their Divine qualities and attestation. And in the light of Scriptural substantiation in word and in power lovers of Truth ascertained John the Baptist was "a prophet indeed," and that Jesus was the Christ, and the apostles showed they were of God, and likewise the inspired writings of men, despite the opposition of the historical magisterium.

And based on Scriptural substantiation we can can see what basic doctrines are of God and what are not, and the weight of conflative Scriptural substantiation is what excludes Purgatory. Thus unless Catholics want to argue for additional God-inspired revelation as men such as the apostles could provide - even though popes and councils do not speak or write as God-inspired writers of Scripture - and that support RC Purgatory, then we must rest upon what we hold as being God-inspired revelation.

The end.

142 posted on 03/14/2019 8:11:25 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: AnalogReigns

Purgatory is real, just like Oz is real. Entertaining, but not “a thing”.


147 posted on 03/14/2019 8:28:31 AM PDT by MayflowerMadam (Jeremiah 1:5 - "Before I formed thee ... I knew thee.")
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