Posted on 08/02/2019 7:49:16 PM PDT by robowombat
I am not a cancer scientist - I simple ask. Is cancer an error or an invasion? Each cell must be replaced approx. every seven years - perhaps an error in copying? I’m just asking . . .
There are a number of gradual demonstrations of species evolution. A classic example shown in a number of museums is the evolution of horses. Starting with the very small 5 toed creature of 20 or more million years ago to the very large one hoofed creature of today. There are lobe finned fish today which can crawl through the mud from one drying pool to another. There is also the DNA evidence which shows more distance from Gorilla to man, less from Chimp to man, and even less from Bonobo to man. The wall of skulls of the hominid line at the Smithsonian Inst. is a fascinating view of the gradual changes over 5 or 6 million years to modern man.
We now have ways of studying evolution using DNA as well as visual characteristics. For example, the redhead is more likely to have Neanderthal DNA than the blond. Unfortunately, we cannot study the DNA of very old fossils to see how new genes have mutated and thus there could be a gradual shift in DNA percentages until a quite new creature has appeared.
My son has a mutation that has affected his development. He has 6 wisdom teeth. When examined the university dental school head wanted to know if he had any Esquimo ancestry. My son is 1/32nd Cree Indian, so I suspect that gene came from the Canadian Indian source. I also did some research and found that some people have 8 wisdom teeth. This certainly affects the facial plan if not the whole body plan.
Are we pro evolution FReepers going to leave this impression unchallenged. I remember plenty of evolution discussions here with lots of pro evolution commenters.
Thanks glee'. Since evolution merely means change, it obviously happens and exists, following random genetic inheritance as well as a bit of recombination and a tinier bit of mutation. Darwinian natural selection is about as valid as a comic book though, even as restated (both ways) in the 20th century and is outmoded and invalid. Regardless, I find that discussing it around here (or much of anywhere online) is utterly futile.
Given the evidence today, I would say ill-informed.
People are vain in their beliefs, because they don’t want to believe the truth. I don’t know why, but people love to run from God.
“My son has a mutation that has affected his development. He has 6 wisdom teeth.”
Yeah. Something along these lines. Good response.
Whether this is something that affects “whole body plan” or much of anything for that matter, could be argued between the two sides til the cows cone home. That’s the problem with this topic.
About this extra wisdom tooth, is it and actual characterized mutation? Or is it a trait that shows up within related groups so it’s clearly a mutation of some sort, but not identified molecularly?
So if you agree that creation can be reduced to coding and if the code is shown to be self modifying through mutations and natural selection there is no need for a supernatural coder.
I can understand God punishing Man with death for “sinning” by why bacteria or plants or animals. Are they sinners to? Universal death of all living things is only necessary for natural selection to achieve greater complexity but is unnecessary to divine creation where it is explained as punishment for the “sin” of self awareness.
If the code can be shown to self modify over time based on the principles of physical molecules why do you still need to propose a supernatural cause?
I agree that the laws of chemistry and thermodynamics would constrain replicating chemistry to certain reactions that only take place at certain energies based on the physics of molecules. But there are many exogenous events that could accelerate or retard the process of natural selection (like meteor strikes, planetary orbital changes, gravitational and electromagnetic fields, and other differences that could vastly change the trajectory of living systems over time.
I don’t dispute that the Bible says this is what happened but it kind of undermines the Western notion of the supremacy of inalienable rights of the individual. Maybe sacrificing individual rights for the survival of the greater society (like they do in Eastern cultures) is more in keeping with the Biblical notion.
“If the code can be shown to self modify over time based on the principles of physical molecules why do you still need to propose a supernatural cause?”
Very good rhetorical question.
I think the crux comes down to “supernatural”.
What’s supernatural?
Also what is meant by “self-modify”? As opposed to simply modify.
I am not sure, but I think ID proponents claim they are not necessarily advocating supernatural cause - only that there seems to be intelligence that is not explained by Darwinian evolution.
A term like self-modify would indicate a self and therefore an intelligence.
So, is there really a difference between IDism and Darwinism?
I’m not so sure.
Bookmark
Pretty lame.
Why do you bother to post at FR?
ML/NJ
“Pretty lame.
Why do you bother to post at FR?”
Lame is your belated post which no one but me will read!
“These myths pop up here every week or so.“
Like the myth that all those bikers in Waco were guilty. Remember that myth?
L
Apparently you have never seen programmers work. Copy-paste engineering is a real thing. No one is going to pay you to write a new thing from scratch when you can just slightly modify what is already there and working.
Besides, if there were truly random mutations, it should produce more variation, not less. You can’t claim random mutation produces macro scale changes but not micro scale changes when the mutations are fundamentally working at the micro scale. Unless the biochemistry just doesn’t work otherwise — in which case you can’t draw any conclusions either way. I would love to see if that topic has actually been researched as opposed to the usual handwaving.
And producing a functioning ecosystem and programming DNA is so laughably beyond anything we are capable of doing that passing a moral judgment on individual elements is done in absolute ignorance.
I don't agree with that …
if the code is shown to be self modifying through mutations and natural selection there is no need for a supernatural coder.
1) That's a big "if", which assumes facts not in evidence.
2) It's still a non-sequitur. The original code required a designer.
I can understand God punishing Man with death for “sinning” by why bacteria or plants or animals. Are they sinners to?
It is apparent to me, in my own personal interpretation of Scripture (Genesis in particular), that God created everything else for the benefit of Man, who was to have dominion over it. When Man sinned, not only did he damage his own nature, he damaged everything else as will.
you are on the wrong thread.
And you’re just wrong.
As usual.
L
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