Reaching out to a Hillsong leader who is renouncing his faith

Christian Post ^ | 08/12/2019 | Michael Brown

[SeekAndFind]

MARTY SAMPSON, SONGWRITER FOR HILLSONG

I just read the news that Marty Sampson, a popular Hillsong songwriter, is leaving the faith. In his words, “I’m genuinely losing my faith.. and it doesn’t bother me.” While some critics claim he was never a true believer, accusing Hillsong of being “a prosperity gospel cult,” I know nothing about Marty at all. So, I’ll take him at his word that he did believe in the past but does so no longer.

What I find most distressing is not him turning from his faith. People fall away all the time, and there are warnings throughout the New Testament about the dangers of apostasy. It is tragic to behold, but not a total surprise.

What is surprising is that Marty seems to feel that “no one” is talking about challenges to the Christian faith. “No one” is discussing difficult intellectual issues. “No one” is engaging the apparent contradictions or interpretative problems in the Bible.

I can only ask (with sadness rather than condemnation), “Marty, what Christian world have you been living in?”

He asks, “How many preachers fall? Many. No one talks about it.”

Really?

How many articles have been written in the last few weeks about the apostasy of Joshua Harris, to give the most recent example?

And how many articles have been written – by believers – about sexual and financial scandals involving major Christian leaders?

“No one talks about it”? Seriously?

He writes, “How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it.”

To repeat my question, “What Christian world was he living in?”

First, there are wonderful books, too many to list here, documenting incredible, contemporary miracles performed in the name of Jesus. (For just a few examples, see here and here and here; more broadly, see here.)

Second, there are even more books, far too many to list here, dealing with the difficult questions of what to do when you don’t receive your miracle. Yes, plenty of times the expected miracles do not take place. (My search for the words “the problem of suffering” together with Christianity, which address a broader issue of faith, yielded almost 1 million results. For a great starting point, go here.)

Marty writes, “Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it.”

Once again, I can’t believe I’m reading these words.

Doesn’t almost every believer, at one point or another, ask about apparent contradictions in the Bible? Don’t all of us, at one time or another, try to find answers to these questions?

Again, not only are there countless scores of books that address these questions in general and in detail, but almost every major study Bible will tackle these questions as well. And what happens when you search for “Bible contradictions” with the word “apologetics”? You find thousands of websites offering different levels of answers to these apparent problems.

Marty writes, “How can God be love yet send 4 billion people to a place, all coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it.”

As this point I want to shout, “OF COURSE WE TALK ABOUT IT!”

Of course we discuss the question of hell and future punishment. Of course we ask how a good God could condemn His own creation to eternal destruction.

As for the notion that people go to hell “all coz they don’t believe,” I can only shake my head in amazement. Does Marty have no conception of human sin and rebellion? Do people perish simply because they didn’t recite some kind of magic formula?

He writes, “I want genuine truth. Not the ‘I just believe it’ kind of truth. Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion.”

Well, I’m thrilled to hear he wants “genuine truth” as opposed to simply taking things by faith. But I must ask once more, “What Christian world has he been living in?”

Is it just me and my colleagues and the people who follow my ministry who want “genuine truth”? Who are willing to ask the hard questions? Who actually encourage honest seeking? (These are rhetorical questions. The answer is, “Certainly not! There are countless millions who want more than just a simplistic, ‘shut off your brain’ kind of faith.”)

As for science “piercing the truth of every religion,” I will simply say this. If Marty and I were standing next to wall of solid, academic Christian books responding to scientific challenges and that wall of books collapsed, we would not survive the avalanche. (Here’s a good place to start your study.)

He writes, “All I know is what’s true to me right now, and Christianity just seems to me like another religion at this point.”

And this is even sadder. Has Marty not seen thousands of radically transformed lives through the gospel? Has he not heard the dramatic and moving testimonies of former Muslims and Hindus and others? Does he not see the cross shouting out to him from the depths of God’s loving heart, something not found in any other religion on the planet?

I have no idea if Marty is simply passing through a difficult stretch and will soon be strong in the Lord or if this reflects deeper issues in his spiritual foundations. And, having never studied Hillsong in any depth, I can’t say if these problems are endemic to their spiritual culture.

But what I fear is that Marty’s shocking lack of awareness of a massive array of solid apologetics material is not his alone. In other words, there are probably plenty of other believers who find no outlet for their questions and concerns, leading to apostasy (or, deep, secret doubt) rather than an intellectually sound, vibrant faith. (For the exact opposite approach to burying your questions, see my forthcoming commentary on Job titled, Job: The Faith to Challenge God.)

My prayer is that Marty Sampson would have the integrity of heart to seek the truth earnestly, with humility and passion, and that all others with questions will put those questions on the table.

I’ve done that for the last 47+ years, being challenged by rabbis from my earliest days as a believer and having done all my academic studies in secular institutions. As a result, I love the Lord with all my heart and with all my mind. He is the God of truth, and His Word is truth.

So, don’t be afraid to ask your honest questions and to follow the truth where it leads. Just don’t do it superficially, and be sure to seek God first and foremost.

And let’s pray for Marty’s repentance, restoration, and more.

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Dr. Michael Brown (www.askdrbrown.org) is the host of the nationally syndicated Line of Fire radio program. His latest book is Jezebel's War With America: The Plot to Destroy Our Country and What We Can Do to Turn the Tide

[Bishop_Malachi]

People can move away from the Faith, get a new perspective, and then come back. I left the Faith for a solid decade only to return more convinced of its truth at a later time.

[cuban leaf]

I feel his pain but, fortunately, these two sources are exemplary of what kept me in the faith, and made it even stronger - as I questioned “Christianity” as practiced in my culture:

https://www.jewishnotgreek.com/

https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/newstarthere/

[refreshed]

Well, that was two pretty prominent Christians denying the faith now. I will make a prediction, not a prognostication, that there will be others that are emboldened to throw off cultural Christianity because they never had a relationship with Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Of course, there have always been apostates and this is probably not the first time in a month two prominent Christians have renounced the faith.

[Mr Rogers]

Lots of Christian musicians fall away. It is harder to find one who stands firm.

[cuban leaf]

I remember arguing with a lot of ex-Christians on a liberal site and noticed some odd similarities. I finally called one out on it. I said, as a Christian myself, I never believed the things you were being taught about our Creator and our savior. That is, you are not an ex-Christian. You are an ex-Catholic. They all were, though this is anecdotal.

I’ve found that as I find real problems with Christianity, it turns out that they are problems I’m having with the teachings of a particular church (sometimes my own church), as opposed to the teachings of Christ.

And as I study and learn, many of my long held beliefs end up being shredded. One of the pastors responded to my comments about it this way: Nobody comes out of seminary with their faith intact.

Thing is, there is all sorts of nonsensical beliefs surrounding Christianity. And often it is really just questionable interpretations of scripture, not the scripture or its roots themselves. A classic example would be YEC (Young earth creationism). It is but one interpretation of the earth’s age, and our discoveries of our world around us make it a hard one to cling to. The funny thing is that it is not even remotely related to the teaching of Christianity. It’s not a pillar of Christianity. It is merely a pillar of many people’s belief paradigm. And speaking of pillars, the writers of the OT books honestly believed the earth was flat, with a solid dome LITERALLY held up by pillars. And that’s OK. They were not teaching science. They were not teaching how God made our universe. They focus on WHY he made us.

[cdcdawg]

The guys seems to be completely unaware and uneducated in his faith, to the point that I don’t believe it. Contradictions? How can God allow suffering? Search for “genuine truth”? There’s only a couple of thousand years of writing on these topics by some pretty smart people.

[Steve_Seattle]

I remember Sampson from the early days of Hillsong, when Darlene Z. was the main focus of the group. I thought some of Hillsong's music was really good in those days, but never cared at all for the preacher, Brian Houston.

Darlene and Miriam Webster had great voices, but Sampson and most of the other males were not up to that standard.

[CondorFlight]

Of course all the miracles in the bible are just tall tales, and Jesus died a long time ago and is gone.

But, a woman in Singapore had a kidney removed because of cancer, and today she has two kidneys (as good as those of a 17-year old), and she didn’t have a transplant. (She did have the name of Jesus to apply.)

[cuban leaf]

BTW, when I called one of those guys out as “ex-catholic” as opposed to “ex-Christian”, he really got angry. Yet every single thing “wrong with the Church” he gave as a reason for leaving, was specific Catholic doctrine.

I think it is a hug mistake to call yourself “Catholic”, Baptist, AG, etc. When asked, the correct answer is “Christian” - I am a follower of Christ. The congregation I attend is fairly irrelevant as long as they promote the commandments of Christ.

[JamesP81]

I remember the early 2000s. I was part of a Christian ministry on a college campus, non-denominational. Everyone loved Hillsong and similar musicians. They taught from the Bible and believed in the Bible.

I always knew something was wrong. I couldn’t articulate it, but I knew as surely as the sun would rise in the east, that something wasn’t right. I suppose the fact that they loved Joel Osteen and other Christian ‘celebrity’ types was a big clue. It didn’t escape my notice.

They were a loving group of people. Extremely so. Uncomfortably so, at times. There was a weakness I detected, but I had no terms to describe it. Naivete might be the closest word I could think of.

I believe they had beaten their spiritual swords into plowshares. They disarmed themselves, thinking themselves virtuous, but there is no virtue in weakness, whether physically or spiritually in the Lord.

I always figured that when opposition came, they were likely to not stand against the tide. I can only hope that I will not fold when it comes for me, but I am not terribly surprised at how easily some gave up.

[cuban leaf]

My wife and I have several bonefide miracles in our life. Two of them are miraculous healings. And, interestingly, when I share our story, one-on-one with people, I’m amazed at how many people come back with their own miraculous healing story. It’s as if we’ve all seen a UFO, and we strongly believe, but we don’t talk about it because people will think we’re nuts - but it turns out that most of us have seen one. ;)

I think there is a lot more miraculous answer to prayer than people think. :)

[yarddog]

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. — Romans 8:38,39

He never was a Christian.

[Dogbert41]

Is it me or does he seem to have no regard to what he’s saying might hurt those around him, or those that enjoyed his music? Aparently he’s been a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

[mikelets456]

#####How can God allow suffering? ##########

He must have missed the entire point of the BIBLE——suffering, used screw ups to make a point, Job, David, all the disciples were brutally killed except John-——who suffered the most? Jesus!

Being a Christian or follower of Christ does not make you life easier or change bad circumstances. Faith in Christ gives you peace and comfort through those circumstances. In order to enjoy the “peaks” in life, one must have experience in the “valleys”.

[JesusIsLord]

“Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go.” (This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God.) And after saying this he said to him, “Follow me.” Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them, the one who had been reclining at table close to him and had said, “Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?” When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord, what about this man?” Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!” (John 21:18-22)

The take-away from this discourse is that if your faith is based on the performance of other Christians, you will be disappointed. Why? Because our faith needs to be IN CHRIST - and no other person.

In the previously cited scripture Peter was concerned about John, asking "what about this man (John)?" Jesus set Peter straight as He will any Believer. Jesus tells Peter to get your eyes off of other people and - "Follow Me!"

This young man from Hillsong who has fallen away never learned this truth.

[cdcdawg]

“He must have missed the entire point of the BIBLE”

I think you summed it up really well right there.

[chajin]

I suspect, and at the moment it is only a suspicion, that we are seeing one or both of two things.

One is the winnowing of the church (as opposed to the winnowing of the world in the last day), separating the wheat and the tares; they have been growing together in the church, almost regardless of denomination, for far too long. (I pray that I will be counted as wheat.)

The other is the sabotaging of the church by demonic infiltrators, using what in another context are called “useful idiots” and in the Bible are called “fools,” as Pied Pipers to shrink the church into what Satan perceives is a conquerable size. Satan, who is the father of lies and who lies to itself, forgets that one person in Christ is greater than all the hordes of hell, and there is far more than simply one person in Christ.

[Lakeshark]

I have met a lot of Catholics who are believers. Strong in their relationship with Jesus. Strong in Faith.

Likewise I have met a lot of shallow root Christians in all different non Catholic denominations.

We live in interesting times.

I did appreciate this article. Hopefully this musician will read it. He may have written some awesome songs, but clearly never passed beyond mother’s milk with his Faith and relationship with his creator.

[mikelets456]

######Marty writes, “How can God be love yet send 4 billion people to a place, all coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it.”########

Love is not forcing someone to love you and giving them everything they want, true love is being merciful and forgiving of those misfits and screw ups willing to run to you in faith. Love is not about control but giving one the choice whether they want to follow or not. God did not send 4 billion people to hell, they chose to go there. Read Romans 1 for starters.