Posted on 11/12/2019 5:34:29 PM PST by ebb tide
Pretty sure you’re not a Catholic. Maybe a trans-Catholic? Just the way you want to self-identify for now?
“ Pretty sure you’re not a Catholic.
I was explicitly told by FRomans, “ once Catholic, always catholic.”
There doesn’t appear to be a lot of difference so it would be hard to give a coherent explanation. You can call large crowds kneeling before statues of Mary and parading through streets anything you want, but it is worship.
We do not have a pope. Your cardinals elected him you are stuck with him unless and until you do something about it.
Sure you do and his name is Jorge Bergoglio.
Ask ampu, he defends your pope, Humble Jorge.
Sure!
Many prots like yourself confuse veneration and worship.
Between you and me, we actually worship and bow down before statues (If you are to believe the Bible), but as Catholics (unlike you prots) are not limited to the Scripture.
Thankfully! Half of what we believe isn't there!
So when we talk to prots, we hide behind latin words not found in Scripture, to justify our worship of art, statues, icons, medals, etc. But it doesn't matter, because we wrote the bible and alone know what it means. Plus we can add to it because God tells us things directly. So we take all that, bundle it up, add pagan customs and practices - but sanctify them, and then do what we want to do anyway.
So the answer to your second question is, we can worship or venerate or chant to whoever and whatever we want, as long as it is a part of our sacred tradition.
This is our history. I don't expect a prot to understand this, so your protestations are meaningless to us.
10-20 years from now, pachamama will be part of sacred tradition, like so many other pagan traditions, but will be purified by being included in catholicism. In fact, we don't doubt that pachamama will become Blessed Saint Mother Earth.
You could ask an intelligent question, for instance, "What's the difference?"
The difference between the Pachamama Caper (latria, adoration) and the devout honor given to Mary the Mother of Jesus, our Lord and our God (dulia, honor) is a matter of kind and not of degree.
They are not similar or analogous: they are opposites. It is not that Pachamama is an exaggerated form of Mary: it's that Pachamama is the diabolical parody of Mary, and her "honors" go in exactly the opposite direction. They are as different as Heaven and Hell.
We "honor" Mary, which is the same "in kind" as honoring your own personal mother, because if your mother merits honor, so also does the mother of our Savior merit honor, not of herself but because of the dignity of her Son. It's like honoring the U.S. First Lady: it's not because of anything she's done, but only because of her relation to the President.
Mary is to be called Blessed. She is God's handmaid. She is creature, He is Creator .He is also her Savior ("my spirit rejoices in God my Savior"). She bends the knee to Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Any praise of her is simply glorifying God because we are rejoicing that "He who is mighty has done great things for her."
Pachamama, 180 degree opposite. Those of the Pachamama cult believe her to be the source of all that is: Creator, not creature. "She" does not say God has done great things for her. "She" acknowledges no one as Savior. "She" does not bend the knee to Jesus Christ. At best, she is a zero, nonexistent (which is a rather difficult disability to overcome!) and at worst "she" is demonic (St. Paul says that things sacrificed to idols are sacrificed to demons.)
It's true that the different customary honors of different culture can be perplexing. The Orthodox pray standing; the Catholics pray kneeling. Some Christians swear on the Bible; Anabaptists do not swear. Catholic priests bless wedding rings; many Christians wear unblessed wedding rings; some will not wear rings. Some pray at gravesites, some will never do so. Some people kiss icons in church; some will not even kiss the bride.
But without getting into the complexities of different "cultures of honor," my point is that this: the difference between prostrating to Pachamama and, say, kissing the crucifix on a rosary is not a matter of cultural translation. The persons and things and "latria" associated with Pachamama are pointing to demons. The persons and things and "dulia" associated with angels and archangels and Mary and the other members of the Body of Christ, are pointing to Christ -- "My Lord and my God" ---we proclaim the true God, and there is no other.
I’m not familiar with Blessed Saint Rancho .
Is this another of our emerging saints?
we do not and never have recognized or elected a pope. Sorry ebb he’s all yours. unless you are not a catholic
You are playing word games to make yourself feel better. Mary is given honor glory and prayer that belongs only to God. Even catholic sources cited earlier in this thread admit that. I’m tired of the word games that Romans play.
This is a mistaken view. I have never done this, and neither has any Catholic I know; nor is it taught in the Catechism ("ya could look it up!")
The Catholic Church does not say of Mary what the pagans say of Pachamama. She is not Creator or Savior, she is not offered sacrifices, she is a literal handmaid; and extraordinary things said of her either reflect her unique role in the Incarnation (she is the mother of Jesus Christ, our Lord and our God --- something He did for her, His lowly handmaid!) or reflect some part of the heritage His faithful shall receive in heaven (where it Paul says--- and this is stupendous--- that His blessed ones shall be partakers in the divine nature.)
Which is *not* to say we will be God or equals to God. It means just what it says: just as Our Lord humbled Himself to share in our humanity, so it is His will that we share in His divinity. Not as God but as true images and likenesses of God, having attained "the full measure of the stature of Christ!
Partakers of the Divine Nature
2 Peter 1:4
Through these He has given us
His precious and magnificent promises,
so that through them you may become
partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world
caused by evil desires.
Ephesians 4:13
...until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ.
Ephesians 4:24
...and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Hebrews 12:10
...God disciplines us for our good, so that we may share in His holiness.
1 John 3:2
Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.
John 1:12,13
But as many as received him, to them gave the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
Galatians 4:19
My children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you
2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
`
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Nothing greater than that has been said of Mary: and these things are said of all who, like Mary, hear the word of God and keep it.
Don't call this "playing word games." This is for real.
You can only speak for yourself.
I have often enjoyed conversing with you, I've thought there was something there for me to learn.
But if you don't think I have anything to offer, do both of us a favor and don't ping me anymore. God bless you anyhow.
I guess the point is while the Roman sect gets to define things as they wish even when it flies in the face of objective appearance, gets to call themselves the true Church without any proof and gets to declare their doctrine is correct because they say so and that supersedes scripture then there is no further ground for discourse. I am very tired and sorry if I said it too sharply, but I lost in hopes of having a reasonable discussion. based on scripture, to reason together as Paul and the Bereans did. It is abundantly clear that is not possible without some common ground and term definition. I wish you well and have actually prayed for you many times. I hope you come out of your apostate denomination. and trust Christ alone for your salvation before it is too late. It would bring me joy to see you and the other Fromans in heaven, even the not so nice ones. Blessing to you.
I accept your expression of good will as it was intended, and I return it. As Thomas More said (to his executioners as he widened his collar and put his head on the chopping block!) — “May we merrily meet in Heaven.”
I apologize for my bad temper last night i should know better than to post on 3 hours sleep after an 18 hour shift
All is well with us, Mom MD, and peace be with you.
Tagline about you, for you.
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