Posted on 04/12/2020 10:51:00 AM PDT by Hebrews 11:6
Jesus received a rich Jew's burial, thanks to Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea:
"Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds. Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen." John 19:39-40
Seventy-five pounds, the Bible's "talent," of spices embedded in those linen strips would have created the first century equivalent of about 3" of fiberglass, with three days to harden and cure. It became a rock-hard cocoon or shell for Jesus' body, with a hole just large enough for his neck: Jewish custom was to cover the head with a separate cloth. And here is John's first-person eyewitness report:
"He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen.
Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed." John 20:5-8
What did John and Peter actually see? The unbroken but now inexplicably empty "cocoon"! They realized Jesus miraculously had passed through that "fiberglass" (just as He would pass through the wall of the disciples' locked room a few hours later).
John and Peter suddenly realized that Jesus was now ALIVE!
you mean the shroud of turen is not real? *cough* *cough* because it claims Jesus was just lying there for a simple cloth over him *snicker*
Holy spirit?
Snicker? ... reading the passage in the Greek indicates the burial wrappings were intact not unrolled. Snicker? Wow, such a flippant post regardless of whether you believe the Shroud is that which Jesus was placed in when taken down from the cross. The wrappings came after He was placed in the shroud and covered.
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John and Peter suddenly realized that Jesus was now ALIVE!
What about Him?
So the author of John 20 must not have seen the Shroud of Turin.
My favorite thing among many things about the Shroud:
“Remarkably, the man’s image is only two microfibers deep — the thickness of about 1 percent of a single thread — and uniform in intensity throughout the cloth with no deviation — a feat impossible to accomplish with human hands!”
Researchers say it was not applied by an artist. It was applied by incredibly bright light.
Well, I don’t know if quite that many stars were still visible when Mary encountered her risen Lord, but otherwise F.M.S. has created a laudable and interesting image.
Flippant, yes. But the most detailed account is John’s. It shows that the wrapping, integrated with the approx. 75 lbs of spices, took place before the body was moved in to the tomb.
So you believe that the body was double wrapped, with two layers of linens (with the outer layer being two piece: the body and the head using separate pieces), and that in between these layers of linens was the 75 lbs of spices?
So someone saved the inner grave clothes, but not the outer layer?
If there was only one layer of linen (which somehow includes the separate piece around the head, then that was a LOT of spices between the body and the linen.
Oh well, whether or not the linens are genuine will not save anyone. Obedience to the Lord’s commands WILL save (see tagline).
Because He wasn’t in them ...
Bump
She should have known that he wasn’t a gardener with that dandy flagged staff, complete with a cross at the top.
But, artist conception is fluid I suppose.
But most of the artists seem to agree: For folks without washing machines, they sure let their clothes drag on the ground a lot.
But woman does not live by agitator alone, as they proved in the first century.
Depends on the Gospel. Some also use Syndon, which refers to a large linen cloth, derived from a Sail. Sudarium, actually is not a “handkerchief” which was used by English language translators to relate to English language readers along with “napkin” to try to imply to such reader a general idea of the size of that particular cloth, but instead was generally a somewhat larger cloth, which when rolled diagonally from corner-to-corner, was then tied around the forehead to keep the sweat from the head from falling into workmen’s eyes, i.e. a sweat cloth. Such cloths are frequently used to this day by workmen in a similar manner.
When understood properly, the cloth was rolled and then tied “about” or around Jesus’ face in accordance with Jewish burial practices, passing under the jaw, up and over the crown of the head where it was tied as a binding to keep the mouth closed in death. This is described in the Mishnah, the written form of the oral traditions. Other cloth bindings were specified to be used to tie the arms at the wrists, and the legs at the ankles and often the knees, to prevent the limbs from flopping akimbo when rigor mortis passed. In addition, large sheets, i.e. remnants of shrouds have been discovered in 1st Century Jewish cemeteries in and around Jerusalems, along with remnants such limb bindings. Cocoons like preparations were NOT part of Jewish burial practices as they would not lend themselves to the further practice of a year later returning to the tomb to collect the bones and either putting them in a family bonebox, called an ossuary, or into a tomb’s central ossuary bone pit, i.e. being collected unto their ancestors. Such a “cocoon” would obstruct that process. Again, these practices are recorded in the Mishnah which does not specify any such cocoon like structure, or bandage like wrappings.
Further exegesis on ὀθόνια (othonia). . . In Greek dictionaries, and in fact in almost all Greek dictionaries, ὀθόνια the use “bandages” is a fourth usage, not even primary, secondary, or tertiary. In fact, it was seen only as such in reference in Greek war literature. It apparently wound up getting defined as a “bandage” in Biblical translation due to the then newly frequent discovery of Egyptian mummies and the conflation of those burials to ALL middle eastern burials commonly thought as having to be swathed in bandages. Nothing is further from the truth. In the Douay–Rheims Bible, again English translators using what they knew, used the recent 16th Century discoveries of many Egyptian mummies with their bandage coverings and conflated the use of ὀθόνια for linen bandages in ancient GREEK WAR TEXTS as a reasonable translation for Jesus’ burial cloths, contrary to the other Gospels’ statement of Joseph of Arimathea buying a fine linen Syndon for the purpose, and grasping the limited amount of time prior to the impending start of the Sabath at sundown by which time everything for the burial plus their own ritual cleansing would have needed to be completed. This unwitting erroneous conflation carried forward in the King James Bible, and into other later translations as well.
For the author’s cocoon hypotheses to be correct, ”τὰ ὀθόνια” would have had to have been changed from “the cloths” or “the clothes” to a singular item, “the cocoon,” which obviously did not occur, as that was not the reference in the Gospel of John.
No sir, because you are not capable of doing that. The only thing that saves is Faith in Jesus as the Lord and Savior. Nothing else matters. Out of love and respect for Jesus as our Lord, we follow the Commandments.
“Credit for these deductions belongs to Dr. Hugh Ross”
He must have borrowed that from E W Kenyon who described that in one of his books about eighty years ago.
Interesting but you missed the point. The argument does not depend on the English word for the cloths but upon the use of the spices. The spices had no effect on the shroud? And my other question, is there an image on the sudarium? A jawbone maybe? There is a claim that it still exists?
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