Posted on 06/28/2020 6:45:42 AM PDT by metmom
“Genuine faith brings about a changed heart, a new birth, a new creature in Christ and WILL be evident in how one lives in that faith”
Can a non-genuine faith save?
“but it is NOT our works that save us - not even a little bit.”
Nobody here said works can save.
Why is this a problem?
Taken “as is”, the words make sense to me.
After all, how can something that is “dead” in this way save anyone?
I don’t know, so, from a different “3:16” point of view, I ask myself:
“In which category would “faith without works” be: Hot, Cold or Lukewarm?“Sounds like “Lukewarm” to me and personal experience with apathy tells me it is not a blessing.
I'd think the answer is pretty obvious - no. But only God sees the heart and knows if professed faith is genuine or not. There are a LOT of pretend Christians in the world. The whole point of the book of James is to teach us how to recognize others (and ourselves) as true Christians or fake Christians and how to reach the lost for Christ with the gospel of grace.
“but it is NOT our works that save us - not even a little bit.”
Nobody here said works can save.
Then what possibly did you mean by:
"The fact remains that a 'faith without works is dead and cannot save'."
‘Then what possibly did you mean by:
‘”The fact remains that a ‘faith without works is dead and cannot save’.”’
The same thing you did in answering “Can a non-genuine faith save?” in the negative.
One is saved by faith not works; works are the fruits of faith, and an absence of works is evidence of an absence of faith.
You turn: Why did you feel a need for clarification? What have I said that was inconsistent with salvation by faith alone - indeed, that was inconsistent with anything you’ve said?
NobleFree... i’m not sure which conversation you are talking about. the statement you made...
“... only through God’s grace can we exhibit Christian conduct. The fact remains that a ‘faith’ without works is dead and cannot save.”....
Is a false statement. period! “christian conduct” is preformed by fake Christians, false prophets and charlatans every day!!
to factor in “works” at any point gives YOU glory not GOD!
and claiming that Gods gift of grace is somehow earned is heretical.
one of the worst problem Christianity today has is people walking around with puffed up christian pride and piety is one of the main reasons non christians reject the message.
“evidence “ to whom? God? he knows your heart better than you.
...and this non biblical quote of yours says much...
“and an absence of works is evidence of an absence of faith”.
pass judgement much ??
“claiming that Gods gift of grace is somehow earned”
I never said nor implied that. Careful not to bear false witness.
Thank you for clarifying. I'm relieved to hear that and agree with you as far as our works are the fruit of genuine faith and not the cause of our salvation. Where I would nitpick a bit more is that ONLY God sees our hearts and He knows if our faith is genuine, soul-saving faith. What you term "an absence of works is evidence of an absence of faith" should be understood in the context that we are a work in progress - For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose. (Philippians 2:13). Some folks are further along in their sanctification than others so one can't compare one's works with another's and then judge the condition of their soul. "By their fruits you shall know them" doesn't mean we get to be fruit inspectors.
You turn: Why did you feel a need for clarification? What have I said that was inconsistent with salvation by faith alone - indeed, that was inconsistent with anything you’ve said?
I explained exactly why and, apparently, I was not alone in seeking it. Far too often on these RF threads things get said and they slip past without someone clearly discussing their implications to the clear message of the Gospel and that someone else may read the posts and walk away with a wrong understanding. I think the gospel of the grace of God saving through faith alone is so critical that I can't just let it go without clarification. Call that a knee-jerk reaction but it is that important to me. Again, thank you for your reply.
“What you term “an absence of works is evidence of an absence of faith” should be understood in the context that we are a work in progress”
Agreed. I was trying to fully state the relationship, not proposing to pass judgment.
“I think the gospel of the grace of God saving through faith alone is so critical that I can’t just let it go without clarification. Call that a knee-jerk reaction but it is that important to me.”
Beats the knee-jerking that sees “works” and “salvation” in the same post and assumes that works salvation is being propounded. Thanks for the exchange, FRiend!
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