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Brave churchgoers hogtied gunman with electrical cords and seized his two weapons after he killed one person and wounded five others when he opened fire inside Orange County Presbyterian church
Daily Mail UK ^ | May 15, 2022 | James Gordon

Posted on 05/15/2022 11:57:33 PM PDT by Morgana

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To: moovova

There’s no PCUSA symbol on the church, only a Celtic cross. I’m guessing this isn’t PCUSA. Also, the article refers to the “diocese.” It’s a Presbytery. There’s no diocese in a Presbyterian Church. And its’ not a Taiwanese church. The Church is being used by a variety of Presbyterians who appear to worship at different times.


21 posted on 05/16/2022 6:33:52 AM PDT by PA Presbyterian (Never Surrender!)
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To: PA Presbyterian
Closest I could find is this...not that it matters. Our church is PCUSA.

Also, they seem to have good income for 260-odd members. I don't know the inner workings of church income/contributions, but this church seems to do well, maybe?

They were courageous in the face of evil. Prayers for their injured and the dead.

Geneva - PC(USA) Research Services - Church Trends

22 posted on 05/16/2022 8:47:39 AM PDT by moovova
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To: backwoods-engineer

Christ did say “buy swords after I am gone”. He knew the followers were going to go thru tough times and that self defense(not living by the sword but rather the use of force to defend what was good such as family might be needed at times). Pacifist Christians have this notion that if someone invades the church with guns that they should let them shoot everybody up including the children because that’s what Christ would have done. Christ said if someone takes your outer garments, give him your shirt and if someone makes you walk with him one mile go with him 2 miles but he didn’t say...”Oh and let them kill you”. Certainly one may end up dying as a martyr but one is not required to make it easy for the killers. Oh I don’t mean brandish a gun while preaching but one might grab a pistol if one is preaching and one sees other congregates being killed. Christ admonished the disciple for cutting off the ear of one of the people who were arresting him saying “to live by the sword is to die by the sword”...one reason he did was that Christ “hadn’t gone away yet”. He said to get the swords “after he had gone”.

The idea is not to live or die by the sword in an offensive co-ercive way but rather, in righteous defense mode you make the other “dumb poor bastard” live and or die by the sword. Never start fights or wars but finish them with honor and show mercy if the enemy relents and surrenders.


23 posted on 05/16/2022 8:55:39 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (A horrible historic indictment: Biden Democrats plunging the world into war to hide their crimes!)
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