I’m on the fence, so this is not an antagonistic question: for pre-trib folks, what to say to the persecuted in the ME, China, Africa, etc? They’ve been told they will be raptured before the tribulation, yet they suffer tribulation. This is weekly convo for my mother and me. Again, not looking for fight.
My belief; there is no rapture. There is only the second coming of Jesus. The rapture is a false teaching.
There’s a difference between experiencing tribulation here on earth, which we all experience and Jesus said we would have, and the time of the Tribulation that is the judgment of God on an unbelieving world.
One is a common noun, just troubles in general.
The Tribulation, the seven year one, is a specific time period for a specific purpose.
I can’t figure why some people insist that we’re all going to go through the Tribulation. They disbelieve that God will remove His church before he judges the world. It’s like they are gruesomely delighted with the thought of us experiencing it.
Fair question.
Jesus told us, "In the world you will have tribulation but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world" (John 16:33). Paul said of his life and our lives, "We will suffer tribulation" (1 Thessalonians 3:4) and "[W]e glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation works patience" (Romans 5:3). There are many other scriptures also about the glories we have inherited because of Christ in us and us in Christ, coupled with tribulations, mainly because the world, the flesh, and the devil is where we live until we go to Heaven to be with Jesus.
The 70th Week of Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27) AKA the 7-yeqar tribulation is, as Forrest Gump would say, "Is whole other country." The seven year "tribulation" and "great tribulation" is God's wrath poured out upon an unrepentant world. God's children are not appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9). We are God's children through Christ who he loves us. The persecutions of Christians around the world now are because Satan hates God and hates God's people. It's Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. God will never be angry with us because Jesus bore all of God's wrath on his body 2000 years ago. God loves his own and has a special place for those who endure tribulation and suffering.
God's people need to understand that the "Rapture" or the "Great Catching Up" of the saints into Heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:17) will actually launch Daniel's 70th Week AKA the seven-year tribulation on earth which will be more horrific than anyone can imagine (don't be afraid, you'll be in heaven with Jesus). Before the first 3 1/2 years are over, half the world will have been killed. By the end of the seven years the whole world will have been slaughtered except for a tiny remnant of Jews hiding in the mountains of Jordan.
Anyone who talks about "mid-trib" or "post trib" hasn't paid attention to or doesn't understand the details of what unimaginably horrific events happen during that seven years and haven't read or understood scriptures that says those seven years are the Wrath of the Lamb and that we, his children, are not appointed to God's wrath but to his love and salvation (1 Thessalonians 5:9).
Hope that helps. Read the refenced scriptures carefully and prayerfully and ask God for wisdom and understanding.
God bless.
“They’ve been told they will be raptured before the tribulation, yet they suffer tribulation.”
Indeed. Many scriptures support the necessity for believers to go through trials, tribulations, persecutions, and adversities. The debate has been made over whether Church-age believers will go through the time period known as the Great Tribulation. I’m of the opinion that, yes, they (or we, if we survive until the rapture) will go through the Great Tribulation. Other Bible-believing Christians hold differing views.
Acts 14:22 (NKJV)
[They were] strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”
I was persuaded many years ago to believe in what is commonly called the pre-wrath rapture.
At the heart of this view is the distinction between the Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord.
There are many reasons I find this more persuasive than other views of the timing of the rapture. One example is that the sign of the sun and moon being darkened (apparently simultaneously) occurs AFTER the Great Tribulation but BEFORE the Day of the Lord.
Matthew 24:29 (NKJV)
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Acts 2:20 (NKJV)
The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
Christian persecution has been here since the church began. So the rapture is not about avoiding persecution but it is Christ taking His bride (the believers) home before the Lamb’s wrath is released on God hating world in the tribulation. During this time God uses the two witness and the 144 thousand sealed Jewish believers to proclaim gospel and the coming Kingdom of Christ. There will be intense persecution as Satan, the antichrist and false prophet work to destroy all Jews and all believers in Jesus.
I fall into the camp that the Book of Revelation is a book that covers the past, present and future. Both when it was written, and for today (and tomorrow).
Believers were being persecuted back when the scripture was written - and it was a message of hope for them. God wins!
It is also a message of hope for the persecuted Church today, and tomorrow. Yes it looks bad - but God wins. He already HAS won.
At the moment, I don’t believe in the rapture, but that isn’t a huge thing to me. Maybe Christians will, but there are a lot of situations where God has left His believers in bad situations. Imprisonment in Egypt for generations, wandering in the desert for 40 years, exile to Babylon, persecution by the Romans, etc. I believe that today we are supposed to help point folks to Christ, and will be there to the very end doing it as well. I know of some churches in Africa that despite the persecution are shining a light on Jesus and His Grace. Hutus and Tuttsi’s that worship God together, even though their parents and families had been murdered by those same people!
The [’tribulation’ written of / spoken of by Jesus is due to the Lamb opening the seven sealed scroll. That is very different from the horrors men have visited upon each other for centuries. In Rev 6, even the heather come to reaqlize the wrath of the Lamb is quite different from any other tribulations. The approach you are citing is a typical way to avoid spiritually seeing what Jesus reveals inn the Revelation. ... might make you feel all warm and fuzzy to have a ‘gotcha’ but it is fraudulent.