Posted on 12/25/2022 3:02:47 PM PST by SeekAndFind
I believe you may be going somewhere different than where a lot of us in this thread think we are going.
If a genuine one was found, we seem to know WHY you would test them, but HOW would you do it?
The fundamental problem is that all such claims are unfalsifiable!
If someone is cured, "It was a miracle / the gracious Will of God!"
If someone dies, "It was the unfathomable Will of God!"
Were there ever "medical emergencies" not "five minutes after I came back, or five minutes before I was scheduled to leave," but WHILE you were gone - and they died?
Wasn't it Bertrand Russell who told of the English vicar who praised God for protecting his parish house as long as he lived in it - and which was destroyed by lightning after he moved out (much to the detriment of the subsequent vicar)?
Thus, God is (at best!) either omniscient and omnipotent, but not omnibenevolent - or He is omniscient and omnibenevolent, but not omnipotent.
- OR He is indeed so far above us as we are above the amœbae, so mysterious and incomprehensible to us, that it would be ridiculous to expect any rapport or rapprochement between us. (Or would you seriously expect amœbae ought to worship us / would you want to punish them if they didn't believe in us?)
Regards,
“See where I’m going”
No. Cartoon characters offer no hope, salvation, no spiritual strength, no unconditional love and mercy.
Can’t do it can you?; believe in something, anything greater than yourself.
You’re a glaring I believe in science Hypocrit.
You have half witted escape valves for everything that challenges your ego.
Humility escapes you.
Thanks for proving my point you with such perfection.
I couldn’t have asked for a better example.
Stop evading the question! Your line of arguing is intended to continue postponing a decision and delaying resolution.
"Did you have sex with that woman?"
Instead of replying honestly and in good faith with, "Well, depends upon your definition of 'sex.' But she did suck my d*ck." You would probably insolently respond like Vinnie Barbarino of "Welcome Back, Kotter," when he was lost for a valid answer: "Where? When? What?"
My point still stands: Without a bonafide miracle-worker on our hands, whom we could examine under laboratory conditions, and according to rigorous forensic standards, any such discussion (à la "A miracle-worker would be demonic if...") is pointless / purely academic.
All we can do instead is observe that, in ancient times when hearsay and oral history predominated, the tiny province of Palestine was rife with miracle-workers of every stripe. And in contrast: Today, when we have an established body of scientific methods at our command, they seem to have dried up. (Kinda like how the frequency of UFO sightings has diminished in direct proportion to smartphone use.)
Regards,
Worse than ambiguous: Unintelligible! Riddled with faulty grammar! Out of context! Does not compute!
Regards,
Am I the only one here lacking in humility?
Have I attacked you personally? Was the ad hominem really necessary or productive? More importantly: Does proving (or simply asserting) that I have personality faults in any way, shape, or form bolster your argumentation or shed light on the topic of "miracles?"
Regards,
Let's not waste time quibbling about that / splitting hairs!
The point is: Shouldn't we honor Christ and ignore those miracles which He performed with the request/command that they be treated with discretion?
Regards,
“Have I attacked you personally? Was the ad hominem really necessary or productive? More importantly: Does proving (or simply asserting) that I have personality faults in any way, shape, or form bolster your argumentation or shed light on the topic of “miracles?”
Cut the BS. Are you going to try believing in something greater than yourself or not worm?
So you are admitting that the degree of belief you have in a deity, supernatural being, or other higher power depends upon how welcome, pleasant, and flattering that belief is to you personally?
Rather self-serving, wouldn't you say?
"You have presented good evidence that XY doesn't exist, sir! But I prefer to continue to believe in XY because it's comforting to me personally to do so!"
Alright...
Regards,
Thanks for dropping the mask and showing us all your true colors!
Regards,
Well, it was a local story I first read in the local newspaper, taking place at a local hospital, and with some commentary by hospital personnel and the families of the two children.
That seems to be consistent among miracles, that they are for the principals involved, not intended to change minds, impress others or persuade people. This makes them frustrating for skeptics. But they are also frustrating for those who want to “assign the miraculous” to their belief system.
And to think that either 3 letters or just 2 could have been used to answer the question.
So instead of even trying to answer you'll just ask your OWN question?
Sorry; but Ol' Homey don't play dat.
Evidence is only as good as the explanation of it to the jury.
‘If da glove don’t fit...’
Classic
So instead of even trying to answer you'll just ask your OWN question?
My question ("Shouldn't we, out of respect, just ignore those miracles for which discretion had been requested?)" preceded your hairsplitting ("Was it a request, or a COMMAND?").
It was thus your add-on question that was "holding up the show."
Okay, I'll respond to your add-on question: In one version of the Bible, it is phrased as an imperative. "Do not speak of this..." So interpret it as you will - as either a request or as a command.
Regards,
Evidence is, indeed, pretty worthless if the D.A. submitting that evidence presents it wrongly, or incompletely, or...
Or if the jury consists of idiots...
Or if the judge instructs the jury to ignore it...
Or...
You are quibbling and holding up proceedings!
Can't we just agree that GOOD evidence is better - generally speaking, all other things being equal - as BAD evidence. THAT is my point.
Why dwell upon exceptions or try to split hairs?
Regards,
Indeed.
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