Posted on 08/16/2023 6:39:10 AM PDT by zucchini bob
(2 Peter 1:20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (Isaiah 28:10) For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: (Isaiah 28:13) But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
When God uses people, it doesn’t tend to be about the people in question, it is about showing the greatness of God.
No one will ever be saved by a church, nor a person, nor a denomination, nor by good works, nor rituals, nor by sacraments.
There is one group that will be saved, those who accepted Christ's sacrifice for their sins alone, knowing they cannot be good enough to earn it or He wouldn't have had to die.,..
And the self-righteous, who heard of his gift, but rejected it and preferred religion or atheism. They will not be saved and it will be hot for eternity.
It is the case that Peter is the rock upon which the Lord’s church is built.
It is not the case that Peter is the rock upon which the Lord’s church is built.
Now what do you suppose Jesus means when he says that Peter is the rock on which he will build his church ("Ekklēsia" actually, not church...his "following" that is...Jesus doesn't talk about a giant bureaucracy, does He?)?
Do you suppose Jesus means to exclude any accounts of his ministry remembered by and/or recorded by Matthew, Luke, Mark, John...and what about Paul?
Or is it possible that Jesus meant that Peter was going to be the leader of the Apostles after the Resurrection (which he was BTW).
No.
To be outside of the body of Christ now is to be outside later as well. If you reject the church you reject Christ. There is no “it’s just Jesus and me” Christianity.
Likewise if you do not eat of his flesh and drink his blood then you’ll have no life within you. No Eucharist, no salvation, no matter what Martin Luther said.
Psalm 51:5:
For I was born a sinner...
—> To be outside of the body of Christ now is to be outside later as well. If you reject the church you reject Christ. There is no “it’s just Jesus and me” Christianity.
Salvation is found in Christ alone. Never a church.
That’s just bogus stuff youve been taught.
Hmm. Must be news to Andrew, who followed Jesus and not Peter--although Peter was with him at the time.
Likewise if you do not eat of his flesh and drink his blood then you’ll have no life within you. No Eucharist, no salvation, no matter what Martin Luther said.
What about the book of Acts?
Acts 16:30-31:No mention of the Eucharist in that passage, and yet the Jailer was saved.
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Matthew 13:34-35:
All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,This fulfilled what God had spoken through the prophet:
"I will speak to you in parables. I will explain things hidden since the creation of the world."
What has that to do eith me?
Stop pointing out the elephant in the room. /s
The meaning (letter & spirit) of God's Word should not differ between Christians - but unfortunately it does. The church evolved over time. Until the schism of 1054, there was one catholic (small c) church headed by Bishops from across the Christian world. One of the things the pre-schism church did was hold periodic councils made up of Bishops representing all of Christendom. Among other things, these councils addressed things like "meaning of scripture". Sadly, the preponderance of differences and separation between different Christian churches/bodies today - is itself an obstacle to having a single translation/meaning to God's Word. Taking it a step further, within a given church it seems everyone has an opinion as to what a verse means. And then there are cafeteria Christians who pick and choose acceptable scripture verses based on their personal bias.
We know the Lord is not the author of confusion. God's Word does not change. The meaning of God's Word is singular. It's time for a prayer.
Father, make your body one as you and your Father are one - in Jesus' name we pray!
No. I am citing verses that show that babies are sinless until the age of accountability.
I cited a scripture that shows “original sin” does not exist.
Behind your response, are you saying that babies are sinners implied from the word, “all?” I think that is what you are talking about.
What we are taught- is that the Church IS the Body of Christ-
A Church that Christ promised to build in Matt 18
to bind and loose and the keys to Heaven stuff...
So when we come to the Church,
We Are coming to the Body of Christ, which He Sacrificed himself for us.
But We are ONLY saved through the GRACE of Christ, indirectly received.
This Grace must come from Christ, and no other way.
And this yes, We can met this Grace of Christ through His Sacraments through the Church -
But we are NEVER saved APART from the Grace that must come from Christ, that we hope and endure will be coming from Christ.
We cannot earn this Grace, we cannot take this Grace as ours- Nor can we proclaim this saving Grace Has already been given to Us.
For this reason Jesus gave us the Church to stay a part of in our earthly life.
The King James Version or the New King James Version is regarded as a translation that stays very close to the original intent and meaning of the original Greek.
The New International Version is cast in the English language of today, so many prefer it.
The English Standard Version is regarded as a bit more rigorous than the King Jame Version. It is a good reference.
For some issues, I check the Amplified version. It is not so much a translation as an interpretation. But it can be very helpful.
It is not that difficult to arrive at an understanding of the word of God by checking various versions. Occasionally, I will look at a Greek/English version to get a sense of the original text. Often, this will clear up some fuzziness in the English version. A particular case of this is the doctrine based on the Greek petros and petra being equal in their English translation. The problem is that it becomes obvious they are not equal when the Greek/English bible is consulted.
Then it is helpful to read a commentary or two. They bring out more ideas that I can use to understand a passage. If commentaries differ, I can think about what would be the best understanding. Sermons are also helpful.
As one or the other translation says, “Study to show yourself approved, being able to give a defense of your belief.” (My version) The idea is to put some effort into understanding doctrine. As in, “Hunger and thirst after righteousness.”
After doing these things, one can have a very good idea of what the word of God says.
I think we are on the same page.
Peter preached the first gospel sermon on Pentecost.
However, all the apostles preached the identical sermon in other languages; Peter’s sermon is the one recorded in scripture.
He was the first to preach to Gentiles, specifically, Cornelius, the centurion.
He and John went to Samaria to lay hands on some Christians. It is there that he has a conversation with Simon, the Sorcerer.
Peter had some problems. He denied the Lord. He sided with the Judaizers, for which Paul withstood him to his face.
In his letters, Peter shows a depth of faith, kindness and caring that was not as evident in his earlier ministries.
At the Jerusalem conference, James, the brother of Jesus, is the leader; Peter is just a witness, testifying to his work with Cornelius.
Peter, however, was not the one on which Jesus built his church.
I think we are on the same page.
—> And this yes, We can met this Grace of Christ through His Sacraments through the Church -
You are told this, but not by Scripture.
It is added, nullifying Christ alone.
It is never Christ-plus.
—> But We are ONLY saved through the GRACE of Christ, indirectly received.
Salvation does not come indirectly. Only directly from Him.
—> We cannot earn this Grace, we cannot take this Grace as ours- Nor can we proclaim this saving Grace Has already been given to Us.
This is a correct statement, acknowledging even though you try, it cannot be done.
Also that you are not saved.
Very sad.
The Gospel of Grace only comes from Him. It saves to the uttermost.
The rest of it all - the costumery, “holy water, rituals, pantheon of manufactured saints, never save nor bring salvation.
They are pagan rituals bolted onto the Gospel.
—> Really- In the Bible? , A three natured, personal GodHead...
Yes. We derive the triune nature of God from Scripture alone.
My reply to RoosterRedux follows your comment.
Various versions, along with commentaries, sermons, YouTube videos all give information.
Discerning doctrine is an exercise in deductive reasoning in which small parts are gathered, then assembled to arrive at a picture, the picture being the doctrine.
We err by believing that which is not true, by not believing that which is true, or by assembling just a small part of the picture and then making a (usually erroneous) declaration of the entire picture.
For example, Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come onto me, for of such is the kingdom of God.’ A large protestant church morphs that verse into a doctrine that states that little children are legitimate church members of that denomination.
They ignore the next verse which reads, “For anyone who does not enter the kingdom as a little child, is not worthy of the kingdom.”
By failing to include that next verse, this denomination, in their authoritative literature deceive their members. They left a critical piece out of the puzzle. Their doctrine is completely wrong.
I am not aware of any large Protestant church doing that.
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