Posted on 11/22/2023 1:20:09 AM PST by spirited irish
“Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.”
They clearly appear as normal human beings.
Though those who’ve personally experienced events as described by God’s Word probably don’t go to the reductio ad absurdum, as you have done in you rather uncouth post.
They present themselves in human form in deceptions given in the Word.
But to make your point, you needed to go into anuses, bowel movements and washing of genitalia?
Probably best that you take a rest from the pulpit.
Pardon the typographical error.
Corrected here...
They present themselves in human form in [descriptions] given in the Word.
——>But to make your point, you needed to go into anuses, bowel movements and washing of genitalia?
Yes.
They present themselves in human form in [descriptions] given in the Word.
In human FORM, but not human.
Phil, this may contradict your SDA talking points, but read the Word and discover what the angels DID.
They ate food
They talked
They walked
They stood
They unlocked prison doors
They extended hands
They were in all sense clearly human in form and function
So much so that when we meet them and show them kindness, we will be unaware that they’re angels and not human.
How exactly did they do these very human things Phil?
You’re making conclusions based upon you’re biased premise, where the Word is very clear.
——You’re making conclusions based upon you’re biased premise, where the Word is very clear.
No, you are, because the WORD says that they took on human FORM, not that they are human. They don’t shape shift into biological humans the second they come to earth.
——>So much so that when we meet them and show them kindness, we will be unaware that they’re angels and not human.
Exactly, NOT HUMAN. By all OUTWARD appearance, they look human, BUT THEY ARE NOT. No bowel movements, no urine production, no sperm, no heart pumping blood. If they had those things, THEY WOULD BE HUMAN, but they aren’t. Angels do not turn into humans on earth, they only resemble them outwardly. They take on their FORM.
Your premise is that certain verses are allegory at your own convenience.
the WORD says that they took on human FORM
In each of the stories where angels DID these things, please cite the verse where it says what you claim...”that they took on human FORM”.
Cite the verses Phil.
Just the verses.
again, just to be clear...
I said they’re angels.
The Word says they’re angels.
You claimed “... the WORD says that they took on human FORM, not that they are human.”
Cite the chapter and verses where the “WORD says that they took on human FORM” is stated.
To substantiate your claim,
...just the chapter and verses please.
As an aside, I think your tagline is exactly right.
Still awaiting those chapter and verses, where you claim “the Word says”...
Couldn’t find any huh!?!
So you change the Word, add to it and distort it for your own agenda.
Relax, Dude. I just woke up from working a 14 hour shift.
Genesis 19, the story of Lot in Sodom. It is clear that two angels come to visit (and there came two angels to Sodom at even). The men of the city saw them, appeared to them as, in form of, humans, MEN. That’s what the WORD says. Moses is telling us that they are ANGELS, referring to them as MEN. They are not humans. They are angels, APPEARING IN THE FORM OF MEN. In verse 15-16 Moses again refers to them as angels, and then, as what everyone else sees them as, AS MEN. They cannot be humans, BECAUSE THEY ARE ANGELS. They only appear as men, take on the form of men.
1And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; 2And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. 3And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat. 4But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, 7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. 8Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. 9And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. 10But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. 11And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
12And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: 13For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it. 14And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
15And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. 16And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. 17And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed. 18And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord: 19Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die: 20Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live. 21And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken. 22Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
And more...
Lot later OBVIOUSLY knew they were ANGELS, and not human beings, AS THEY APPEARED.
Compared with the rest of the story, there is a sudden change in the pronouns from plural to singular. Notice verse 17, “So it came to pass, when they had brought them outside, that he said”—one of the messengers speaks. In verse 18, Lot addresses them and uses the term “lords.” Keil & Delitzsch Commentary says, No, “lord” is singular in the Hebrew.
Adonai, “Lord,” is the name of God. Is it the name of Melchizedek? Was Melchizedek there to destroy the city? If the messenger was not Melchizedek, why did Lot call him “lord”? Why in verses 21 and 22 does the angel take the authority to himself to destroy the city? He says to Lot, “I cannot do anything until you arrive there,” and then verse 24 relates, “The LORD rained down. . . .” Is the LORD the same “lord” who was the “I” of verse 22? An interesting sequence of verses.
Not only does Keil & Delitzsch say this, but the Jewish Publication Society’s Tanahk, the King James Version, and the Revised Standard Version all reinforce this idea in various ways.
Here’s another angel, APPEARING IN THE FORM OF A MAN (probably Gabriel)
Angel, not human, but appearing as such, IN THE FORM OF, other than the obvious.
Daniel 10:4And in the four and twentieth day of the first month, as I was by the side of the great river, which is Hiddekel; 5Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: 6His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
Same in Genesis 18, when preincarnate Jesus Christ and 2 angels appear to Abraham. They appeared to him as men. They took the form of humans.
1And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground.
Your inability to understand something taken to the base level is not my problem.
The biblical concept that messengers from God, INCLUDING preincarnate Jesus Christ, appear IN THE FORM OF MEN, but are not human, is so clear and concise, that one would have to question that person’s complete understanding of the bible, in them who deny it.
Created ANGELS were not created to procreate. Humans were. No one in their right mind should think that they would have been created with a working HUMAN reproductive system, BECAUSE THEY AREN’T HUMAN.
And when Joshua met preincarnate Jesus Christ? Christ appeared to him AS A MAN, IN THE FORM OF A MAN.
Josh 5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
You added “IN THE FORM OF” to each of those verses to suit your argument.
Fail
Actually, to my “interpretation” of those verses, because that is indeed what they mean.
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