Posted on 03/27/2024 7:04:19 PM PDT by ebb tide
How can you claim to have a "relationship with God" while stating you're not "a terribly religious man"?
You masons worship a deity that is not the Holy Trinity. You're no more than pagans.
“You masons worship a deity that is not the Holy Trinity. You’re no more than pagans.”
I wondered when it was going to come to this. You know nothing about the faith of masons. They include almost every religion on earth and only those that profess a diety. And that includes your diety as there are catholics in our numbers. We will not accept men or women into our fraturnity that do not act in a manner consistent with Christianity as if you’ll remember our saying, “We take good men and make them better.” And our sisters in the Order of Eastern Star are the same.
On the alter in the center of some of our lodges and chapters sits the King James version. The King James Bible for Catholics is a near replica of the 1611 edition of the King James Bible (Authorized Version) which has been updated to reflect the order of books and text found in the Catholic Bible. Welcome home. If you’re a good man or woman, we would love to have you in our participation. And even though you bad mouth us saying things about us that are just not true, I’ll bet you don’t even know what we do.
Let me help you out. We operate 22 children’s hospitals in 3 countries and donate around $3.6 billion dollars a day to them and other charities like working dogs, children’s dyslexia centers, The Red Cross, youth scholorships, vision related groups, and many more. Ever heard of the Mayo Clinic. The Mayo brothers were masons.
Many of our founders were masons like Washington, Franklyn, Revere, and his riding partner William Dawes...lots of them. Hitler hated the masons so bad he had over 50K of us slaughtered because we supported people who believed in a diety, the Jews.
You know so little about us, yet you hate us for what we are? You don’t know what we are. I would suggest before you start to tells us what we are like in the original thread, you find out. We don’t bad mouth you and we know about the same about you as you do us. But we have your bible on some of our alters that we pray to just like in any catholic church. Only difference is that we respect people’s right to choice of their religious beliefs. We don’t feel any church is a one size fits all. And my peers, in 51 Grand Lodges (one in each state and the District of Columbia) which together have a total membership of around 2 million in north America, all cherish these freedoms. And we love God, too...just like you and in many cases using your volume to do so.
wy69
I did know that; and that is why it's impossiple for y'all to solely worship the One, True, God: the Holy Trinity.
An interesting little story that comes from Catholic Family News.
“Never be ashamed of Christ or of His doctrine. It is time to fight with open face.” – Padre Pio
by Fr. Pascal P. Parente
A well-know attorney of Genoa, Comm. Cesare Festa, a first cousin of Dr. G. Festa of Rome, former mayor of Arenzano and one of the most prominent Freemasons of Genoa, was one of the first conquests of Padre Pio’s kindness and zeal. Dr. G. Festa had often exhorted his cousin to abandon Freemasonry and to return to the Church, but to no avail. When he became acquainted with Padre Pio, he spoke about the Padre to his cousin Cesare. One day, out of curiosity, Cesare left Genoa and traveled all the way south to San Giovanni Rotondo.
“What, you here? You, who are a Freemason?” exclaimed Padre Pio the moment he laid eyes on the newcomer.
“Yes, Father,” said Cesare.
“And what is your intention as a Freemason?” “To fight against the Church from a political point of view.”
Padre Pio smiled, took his visitor’s hand and with extreme kindness began to tell him the story of the Prodigal Son. That same day Cesare went down on his knees before Padre Pio and made his confession, the first in twenty-five years. The next morning he received Holy Communion.
For a few days he remained with the Padre to strengthen his soul for the ordeal that lay ahead. Padre Pio advised him to wait before announcing his official break with the Freemasons. After a few months he returned again to see the Padre, and this time he stopped in Rome to tell his cousin, Dr. Festa, of his conversion and change of heart.
When an Italian pilgrimage to Lourdes was organized under the leadership of Archbishop Achille Ratti of Milan (Later Pope Pius XI), Cesare decided to offer his services to the invalid pilgrims, both on the train and later at the hotel.
This fact soon became known, and the Socialist paper Avanti and similar sheets let loose a violent attack under a big headline: “A Freemason at Lourdes!”
Cesare was immediately requested to explain his actions. His answer was brief and to the point. At Lourdes, he said, he had admired not so much the restoration of bodily health as the miracles of faith. A new storm followed, because, officially, he was still a member of the brotherhood. As he was preparing to go to the last meeting of the Lodge to break all ties with Freemasonry, he received a most encouraging letter from Padre Pio.
“Never be ashamed of Christ or of His doctrine. It is time to fight with open face. May the Giver of all blessings grant you the needed strength!”
These words, coming at such a critical moment, gave Cesare the necessary courage. He went to the Lodge and there, with great fervor of spirit, spoke openly of Christ, the Saviour of the world, of His doctrine, His Church, and of his own supreme happiness in returning to them. Then he officially presented his resignation from office and broke all ties with the sect.
All this took place during November, 1921. The following Christmas Cesare was in Rome with his cousin, Dr. Festa. There the former Freemason was to be seen in the garb of a Franciscan Tertiary, walking in the procession of the Bambino in the church of Ara Coeli, a lighted candle in his hand.
Just an FYI. It’s deity, not “diety”.
And it’s altar, not “alter”.
While I don’t believe that is my mistake, I am a terrible proof-reader, I apologize if it was my mistake.
“I did know that; and that is why it’s impossiple for y’all to solely worship the One, True, God: the Holy Trinity.”
Who says we wanted to?
You asked me (questioned me really) about my faith. In the statement above, it displays why I think the way I do. I am not going to tell you you are wrong in your choice of vessel for your faith, but yet you do me and don’t even know what vessel I profess. You demand I allow you your faith in the God you follow, but at the same time you wish for the expulsion of mine, again not knowing what it is. Whatever happened to do unto others?
The Catholic Church recognizes the good in other religious traditions...
Yet you propose to create a religion (Masonic which doesn’t exist) while attacking the many religious faiths I respect and try to join with a group that does so much for the world while not condemning the religion in front of me. I don’t condemn Catholicism as you believe in a diety, so do I. But the moment you say your’s is the right diety, and the only diety and try to defend it, even if it could be the same diety, are you not condemning the many protestant religions in the US which is founded, first amendment, in the freedom of religion?
And this is why I don’t openly profess a vessel for my faith. I have the same beliefs you do. I just don’t call it catholic, baptist, nazarine, presbyterian, church of christ, mormon, or any other religion with that belief in a diety. And I recognize every one of them and celebrate their opportunity to worship. Do I agree with all of them, not completely, but I respect them. But if you remember, Christ was born a Jew and preached in Jewish synagogues using Jewish text. Yet he is the central figure of Christianity, the world’s largest religion. So which one do you proclaim wrong or is it both even though many catholics are christian in their approach to religion.
Some day I hope you get to sit down with a mason face up and discuss religious beliefs rather than what someone writes to further an agenda. I hope the individual is able to make you understand that we don’t try to harm other religions or profess to any parfticular one. We accept them for their belief in a diety. And we do not try to make people follow one religion “because it is the right one” and is taught by others that taught the same thing. Yours may not be the one true religion.
And remember:
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Mathew 18:20 KJV
Did it mention how many professed to those two and that it should be just that particular vessel for religion? There weren’t even any walls or ceiling on that church. Or even a recognition of the vessel that designates a particular religion. So what religion is it? Does it make any difference? I don’t think so.
wy69
Mea culpa.
I meant to address that post to whitney69, not you.
“I did know that; and that is why it’s impossiple for y’all to solely worship the One, True, God: the Holy Trinity.”
Who says we wanted to?
Thanks for admitting that freemasons don' worship the Holy Trinity, but they do acknowledge their GAOTU, acceptable to most all members from differing religious faiths.
“Thanks for admitting that freemasons don’ worship the Holy Trinity...”
Didn’t admit that at all. Said we worship diety and we respect the worshiping of everyone’s diety to include yours. You use the phrase Holy Trinity which is the way of describing God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. If they are the same God, are you not worshipping one God, the same as we do expect opur members to? And unlike you, we do not profess that our God, as you put it, is not the holy trinity and is different from yours. We are not a religion, we are a bunch of people that are religious and are accepted for what they do with their religion. You only accept your religion, and no one elses. You need to read your bible a little more. You are so busy pointing fingers at things you do not know that you are failing to see what you think you are may not be.
Bible, King James Version
Matt.7 Verses 3
[3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
wy69
“Thanks for admitting that freemasons don’ worship the Holy Trinity...”
Didn’t admit that at all. Said we worship diety and we respect the worshiping of everyone’s diety to include yours. You use the phrase Holy Trinity which is the way of describing God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. If they are the same God, are you not worshipping one God, the same as we do expect opur members to? And unlike you, we do not profess that our God, as you put it, is not the holy trinity and is different from yours. We are not a religion, we are a bunch of people that are religious and are accepted for what they do with their religion. You only accept your religion, and no one elses. You need to read your bible a little more. You are so busy pointing fingers at things you do not know that you are failing to see what you think you are may not be.
Bible, King James Version
Matt.7 Verses 3
[3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
wy69
You are so far off base on the True God. Freemasonry will do that to you. And you have also just now admitted that your members worship multiple "gods". Who in their right mind would want to part of such an organization?
By the way, what's a "diety"?
At this period, however, the partisans of evil seems to be combining together, and to be struggling with united vehemence, led on or assisted by that strongly organized and widespread association called the Freemasons. No longer making any secret of their purposes, they are now boldly rising up against God Himself. They are planning the destruction of holy Church publicly and openly, and this with the set purpose of utterly despoiling the nations of Christendom, if it were possible, of the blessings obtained for us through Jesus Christ our Saviour. Lamenting these evils, We are constrained by the charity which urges Our heart to cry out often to God: "For lo, Thy enemies have made a noise; and they that hate Thee have lifted up the head. They have taken a malicious counsel against Thy people, and they have consulted against Thy saints. They have said, 'come, and let us destroy them, so that they be not a nation.'(2)
...
There are several organized bodies which, though differing in name, in ceremonial, in form and origin, are nevertheless so bound together by community of purpose and by the similarity of their main opinions, as to make in fact one thing with the sect of the Freemasons, which is a kind of center whence they all go forth, and whither they all return. Now, these no longer show a desire to remain concealed; for they hold their meetings in the daylight and before the public eye, and publish their own newspaper organs; and yet, when thoroughly understood, they are found still to retain the nature and the habits of secret societies. There are many things like mysteries which it is the fixed rule to hide with extreme care, not only from strangers, but from very many members, also; such as their secret and final designs, the names of the chief leaders, and certain secret and inner meetings, as well as their decisions, and the ways and means of carrying them out. This is, no doubt, the object of the manifold difference among the members as to right, office, and privilege, of the received distinction of orders and grades, and of that severe discipline which is maintained.
Deity:
the creator and supreme being (in a monotheistic religion such as Christianity). noun
The Bible says that the one true God is the sovereign, self-existent Creator of the universe (Isaiah 42:5; Ephesians 1:11). Kind of like what masons refer God to be: the Great architect of the Universe. We also use the word God. Same/same.
Isn’t that the same as the God you profess like “Lord,” “God,” “Father,” “Holy Trinity,” “Jesus Christ.” or before his death, ““Jesus of Nazareth?” It’s okay to have so many names, just the same as it is okay to have so many religions that have names for their God. And that’s the major difference between you and I, you profess the legitimacy of one religion, and I recognize every one with a deity involved as that can be God. So how come yours is the only correct one? We recognize people for what they are, not what they call themselves.
wy69
Deity:
the creator and supreme being (in a monotheistic religion such as Christianity). noun
The Bible says that the one true God is the sovereign, self-existent Creator of the universe (Isaiah 42:5; Ephesians 1:11). Kind of like what masons refer God to be: the Great architect of the Universe. We also use the word God. Same/same.
Isn’t that the same as the God you profess like “Lord,” “God,” “Father,” “Holy Trinity,” “Jesus Christ.” or before his death, ““Jesus of Nazareth?” It’s okay to have so many names, just the same as it is okay to have so many religions that have names for their God. And that’s the major difference between you and I, you profess the legitimacy of one religion, and I recognize every one with a deity involved as that can be God. So how come yours is the only correct one? We recognize people for what they are, not what they call themselves.
wy69
Our role as Masons is not to accept, embrace, or proclaim as true ANY religion or body of religious dogma.
So that bible that you claim is on the "alters" of your lodges is just window dressing for your token christians.
And for your information: Hindus do not worship a single deity.
"By 1872, when the first Hindu joined an English lodge in India, members of all religions seem to have been accepted without exception."
Freemasonry and Eastern Religions
You appear to know very little about freemasonry. Hopefully you learn more and finally get out of that evil cult. See post #24. I notice you haven't responded to that post.
Do you believe the muslims, who deny the Holy Trinity, worship the same "god" as your christian freemasons worship?
Do you worship the same "gods" whom the hindu freemasons worship?
Why Catholics Cannot be Masons
Many good Catholic men have been deceived into becoming Masons. In this powerful little book, a Catholic attorney and former 32nd degree Mason, John Salza, clearly shows why joining Masonry (including the Shriners) means embracing a false religion.
Having authored Masonry Unmasked for general readership, here John Salza writes specifically for Catholics, showing why the Church has always condemmed Freemasonry, and continues to condemn Freemasonry today (despite mistaken claims to the contrary.) He explains Masonic doctrines, history, rituals, oaths and curses, showing that Masonry is totally incompatible with Christianity and the Catholic Faith.
He answers the questions: Who is the god of Freemasonry? How does Freemasonry view the Holy Bible? What are the self-curses of Freemasonry? Why does Freemasonry appear to be compatible with the Christian Faith? What have the Popes said about Freemasonry? Are Catholics involved in Freemasonry excommunicated? How does a Catholic exit Freemasonry?
Packed with facts and very well documented, Why Catholics Cannot Be Masons is a brief but potent revelation by a man who has been there - and then returned to the One True Faith.
Because I believe in the Bible, that Jesus Christ is God and that Jesus Christ founded one Church:
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
“Do you worship the same “gods” whom the hindu freemasons worship?
Never said I did. I just recognize the right of them to do so. Hinduism has a monotheistic (one God) as well as polytheistic (many of Gods) elements: the one Ultimate Reality or Supreme Being (Brahman) also exists simultaneously in the deities of the Creator (Brahma), the Sustainer (Vishnu) and the Destroyer (Shiva). So they have one God tied with other elements of their religion. Sound familiar?
And that’s that difference I mentioned. You try so hard to connect the craft to anything that is different from your religion while trying to push your religion on me and hunting for pieces of other religions to attack. You may not be the only true religion. God may be represented in many faiths. The difference is I don’t make an effort to force anyone to believe any one is right and all the others are wrong. I offer the hand of peace and cooporation while you try to stamp out other’s beliefs. And as long as you go after people with such a closed mind, you separate and condesend while I offer equality. And that’s one of the reasons for fear and a wish to over react as it creates distrust. So you mistrust me and attack my religious privileges while you set yourself on the pedestal of rightousness which I respect your privilege of being there.
You can worship in any way you wish. And I spent half my life defending that privilege. And you can pray at your alter 24/7 and I hope you are fullfilled. But don’t tell me after all this I’ve said that masonry is connected to bad people because they don’t follow your beliefs. You could be right or wrong. All you have to go by is the interpretation of what you read and hear. So hear this, we do not represent any religion in the craft. We only try to get men and women in that are of sound behavior so they can help us with our real job...our charities and are treatment of people in the best of effort. And by the way you have handled this interaction, it is obvious you do not becasue you aren’t interested in learning something, you are just interested in destroying it. I don’t wish to try to convert you as we don’t do that. You have to come to us without our coertion. You don’t work that way. Sad.
I’m done with this as I can’t continue to say the same things over and over and have you ignore them or try to destroy them. I’m not here for your entertainment and you don’t need to witness for me as I already know what I need to know...you have a deity, and if you are a good person, I would welcome you into our fraternity. You on the other hand belong to a group that threw us out generations ago without even understanding what we do and why and are still attacking us. Not very christian is it? So long. I won’t be answering any more posts from you. I did my best but it didn’t work out. I’m out of cheeks.
wy69
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