Posted on 04/10/2024 7:03:34 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
The Bible is pretty clear that there is a rapture.
It does say the mark will be in your forehead or in your hand. that tells me it’s some sort of microchip or something.
It also says mark will turn out to be bio-incompatible
Of course it is, right in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. No one disputes this. But this refers to Christ's Second Coming, not to a separate, secret event where Christ comes twice--after the tribulation and again after an earthly 1000 year reign. It does not say that in Thessalonians and one has to cobble together a body of unrelated verses from all over the Bible to build a whole body of novel theology unimagined to 1800 years of Christianity.
Specifically which of his writings?
It’s extremely difficult to understand (maybe impossible) without the full context of the preceding 65 books of the bible.
By itself, it could mean anything... in full context it means everything... by design.
The first 65 books refer to the last one.
Yup, and with the push to go cashless, this is becoming more and more a reality.
The vax card thig was just a trial run.
Not to mention the hyperinflation.
Or people’s skin and eyes melting or being consumed off their bones as they stand. (Atomic blast anyone?)
And the monstrosities described in Revelation could EASILY be from genetic manipulation.
Yeah, real *secret* when millions of people disappear.
Honestly, this idea that the rapture is *secret* is garbage beginning to end.
Finished my first reading of El Apocalypsis, the Spanish translation, last night. That’s my dessert for my first completed reading of the NT in this new (to me) language.
I’ve probably read this “index” to the rest of the Bible 20 times in Greek. The original language has a pounding rhythm to it that loses something in translation.
I had a lot of fun blogging my way through the Turkish translation, since that nation is on my heart, and the 7 churches were all in that part of the globe.
Bottom line: Get the time frame right, and the whole New Testament pops into vivid focus and makes sense. Get the time frame wrong, and you might well spiral into immediate irrelevance, and a much lower quality of life.
The state-of-the-art best eschatology, postmillennialism, usually includes some form of preterism. Most of the prophecies in the Olivet Discourse, and John’s more detailed retelling of that discourse in prophetic (visual, right-brain) imagery, refers to the Jewish War, which lasted 7 years, started on schedule 40 years after Jesus pronounced God’s pending judgment upon “this generation,” and kicked the feet out from under the Kingdom of God’s two chief enemies — Rome, and apostate Israel.
Get the time frame right, and you can even explain Apocalypse to Turkish Muslims in a way that makes sense.
https://al-ve-oku.blogspot.com/2008/12/revelations-should-reveal.html
The Rapturists themselves imply that it will be a secret rapture in that those “left behind” will not see it happening- people flying up through the air—one minute Christians will be there, and then they won’t.
Justin Martyr in First apology: Chapter XXXIX
The Spirit of prophecy speaks.. in this way: "For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. Isaiah 2:3 And that it did so come to pass, we can convince you. For from Jerusalem there went out into the world, men, twelve in number, and these illiterate, of no ability in speaking: but by the power of God they proclaimed to every race of men that they were sent by Christ to teach to all the word of God; "Justin Martyr makes it clear that he believed the peace promises of the Old Testament were a present reality in 130 AD
Eusebius was clear that Daniel's visions were fulfilled in the first coming of Christ -- The abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very Temple of God, so celebrated of old, the Temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire"
in Eusebius Church history III:7. It is fitting to add to these accounts the true prediction of our Saviour in which he foretold these very events. {in the Olivet discourse}His words are as follows: Woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day. For there shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
The historian, reckoning the whole number of the slain, says that eleven hundred thousand persons perished by famine and sword, and that the rest of the rioters and robbers, being betrayed by each other after the taking of the city, were slain. But the tallest of the youths and those that were distinguished for beauty were preserved for the triumph. Of the rest of the multitude, those that were over seventeen years of age were sent as prisoners to labor in the works of Egypt, while still more were scattered through the provinces to meet their death in the theaters by the sword and by beasts. Those under seventeen years of age were carried away to be sold as slaves, and of these alone the number reached ninety thousand.
These things took place in this manner in the second year of the reign of Vespasian, in accordance with the prophecies of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, who by divine power saw them beforehand as if they were already present, and wept and mourned according to the statement of the holy evangelists, who give the very words which he uttered, when, as if addressing Jerusalem herself,
Rev. 1:1 Jesus says, “These things will happen shortly.” According to some here, if I take that literally, then I am some kind of apostate.
Despite all the controversy and differences of understanding on the book of Revelation, most will agree on one thing, strangely, that “these things will happen shortly” does not mean these things will happen shortly. It means these things will happen over the next few thousand years.
Seems to me revelation at Sinai to millions— who experienced it and believed it (they knew it, seeing is believing,)— is better proof.
Direct revelation tends to torque people off, if it's not unseen in the first place (the first priority), perhaps because the DR is not found in the programming.
Here you go, just look as this expression for literal torque. It's a mixed bag of word origins:
מומנט כוח
"A moment of force"
= 179 = venahafoch hu [ונהפוך הוא].
("In physics and mechanics, torque is the rotational analogue of linear force.")
And then the message when they are placed together:
מומנט כוח ונהפוך הוא
(= 358)
***
Or, how to split "the sea": ה-ים
(55 = 5 + 50; and "55 Saves Lives", but who had the time and patience for that).
When there's a will, there's a way.
When there's no will, there's no way. That's what the eagle-eyed Haman Resources departments are for. They pride themselves on disqualifying the most qualified candidate. Wouldn't want the wrong guy to get the job!!!
So transparent.
The splitting of the Red Sea was an event at which Israel experienced direct revelation of God. Their witnessing of God was so sweeping and so imposing that the Sages declared, “the merest handmaiden at the Sea saw what Isaiah and Ezekiel never saw;” (Mechilta of Rabbi Ishmael, Tractate Shira, Parasha 3). “a tot on its mother’s knees and a babe suckling at its mother’s breast…even a fetus in its mother’s womb” witnessed theShechina.” (Tosefta Sotah, סוטה ו ה”ד). At this uplifting moment they broke into song. According to the “it was said at the sea” approach, Israel sang not only the Song of the Sea but also the Song of Songs. The verses of the latter take on a holy dimension and are presented as words of prophecy, an expression of the experience of witnessing God face to face.
The Song of Songs enhances the Splitting of the Sea with its ambiance of a longed-for encounter between a pair of lovers. In our opening midrash, the Song of Songs adds a new quality to the God-Israel relationship: not only as a dove and her master, with its elements of caring and lordship, but also as lovers who share a closeness and great love. The custom of reading the Song of Songs on Passover thus renews that lofty religious experience of seeing God face to face, and expresses our fervent desire that God’s love and concern for us will abide forever.
>>>
The hawk and snake discover to their surprise that the dove [היונה] is not wild but belongs to her master, who comes to her aid, dispelling the danger and saving her.
https://schechter.edu/the-song-of-songs-and-the-story-of-the-exodus-from-egypt/
🤔
Not in the programming:
You've got your reasons to choose
Not to ever believe me
Maybe life's done you so dirty
You'll never be free
Look whatcha doin' to someone
Who so really loves you.
Is that the lonesome ol' way
You want it to be?...
...We can do better than this
We can go for the glory
I hope to God we can handle
the worst of our fears (now don't be afraid)...
Between Heaven and Here -- Kris Kristofferson (a moment of forever)
"thrill of a lifetime"
The symbol of Joseph is the OX:
XOXO
Maybe we'll tear down the walls between heaven and here.
💗
Some of them ended their lives as apostates, like Tertullian. He died a Montanist. Montanism was a strange heresy that believed in ongoing continuous revelation through their "prophets".
This quote of yours from Irenaeus:
The rule of faith taught the following three truths: 1) Jesus would come bodily to Earth. 2) The rule of faith affirms the bodily resurrection of believers, and 3) the rule of faith affirms a future judgment
... sums up exactly what I and the rest of the Catholic and orthodox world believes, though. There's nothing in it about a thousand year reign of Christ visibly on earth, and there's nothing about a rapture that precedes the second coming by many years.
The Church fathers did NOT teach about dispensationalism — Irenaeus, Justin Martyr etc viewed the Church as the expanded Israel.
they did not understand the Church to be an invisible, spiritual entity that would be taken secretly from the earth before the final events of the world. The idea of this kind of Rapture would have been completely foreign to them.
The Church is in history, but at the same time she transcends it. It is only ‘with the eyes of faith’ that one can see her in her visible reality and at the same time in her spiritual reality as bearer of divine life.
The seed of the Kingdom exists in the Church, but is not yet realized here on earth: ” Now the Father’s will is ‘to raise up men to share in his own divine life.’ He does this by gathering men around his Son Jesus Christ. This gathering is the Church, ‘on earth the seed and beginning of that kingdom’”
There are 2 marks written about in revelation
Rev 7 - 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
That’s God’s mark. We also read of the Lamb triumphant.
Then later you see Satan invert this - with a second beast from the land that is a mockery of the lamb and a second mark that is for the quislings.
Both the marks are on your spirit, not physical
The English and Latin texts of the first passages that are used by you to try to support the pre-tribulation rapture are
| Rhoades translation | Actual Translation | Latin |
| Why therefore do we not reject every car of earthly actions and prepare outselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? (section 2) | Why therefore do we not thrust from us all anxiety on account of earthly impulses, and prepare ourselves for a meeting with the Lord Christ, so that he might draw us out from confusion, which overwhelms all mankind? | Quid ergo non proicimus a nobis omnem actuum terrenorum sollicitudinem et nosmet ipsos praeparamus in occursum domini Christi, ut nos eruat a confusione, quae uniursum obruet mundum? |
| For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to thw Lord les they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins | Truly all the holy and elect of God, before the tribulation that is about to come, are gathered and received to the Lord, lest at any time they see the confusion that will overwhelm all mankind in account of our sins | Omnes enim sancti et electi Dei ante tribulationem, quae uentura est, colliguntur et ad Dominum adsumuntur, ne quando uideant confusionem, quae uniuersum propter peccata nostra obruet mundum |
Though the verb can be used where physical movement takes place if implied in the context, this is not a meaning inclusive in the word itself. In fact, it is most often to take without any actual literal movement being stressed at all, such as joining another to one's self in a relationship of position.
So the passage actually reads is
for all the saints and the elect of God are gathered and joined to the Lord before the tribulation that is to come, lest at any time they experience the confusion that will overwhelm the whole world because of our sins.
reading into these a pre-tribulation rapture is false especially when the rest of the text is examined, which is usually ignored or neglected by most pre-tribulation rapture proponents - and it is important to tell you two what the passages do NOT say
########################################################
What the passages do and do NOT say
The most important thing to notice os that the focus of deliverance is not on the tribulation itself. Christians are instead being rescued from the "confusion" that comes with that tribulation
The passages do NOT say that there is a physical gathering that requires movement - nor is it even implied. There is no mention of leaving anywhere or going to any place
the Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraem does NOT say we are being taken from the world or going to heaven. It simply emphasizes being gathered together to the Lord to be rescued from the confusion in a contrast to those who are being deceived and being gathered together to the AntiChrist
You can see this most clearly in section 5 of Pseudo-Ephraem
Then that worthless and abominable dragon shall appear, he, whom Moses named in Deuteronomy, saying: Dan is a young lion, reclining and leaping from Basan..."Basan" certainly is interpreted "confussion". He shall rise up from the confusion of his iniquity. The one who gathers together to himself a partridge the childrn of confusion, also shall call them, whom he has not brought forth, just as Jeremiah the prophet says. Also in the last day they shall relinquish him just as confused(section 5)
This confusion is the same as found in 2 Thess 2:8-12
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
And Matt 24:24 "they shall decieve the very elect"
########################
Taking it from the Greek makes it even clearer -- "The elect are gathered together before the tribulation so that they might not know the confusion and the great tribulation which is coming upon the unrighteous world"
Absolutely nothing in the original Greek can be translated as "taken" and it does not say ANYTHING about being raptured.
Pseudo Ephraem says nothing that would support a pre-tribulation rapture - in contrast it says that the elect will not be deceived by the confusion and the great tribulation coming upon unbelievers
The writer indicates that Christians will be here during the tribulation "And so, brothers most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of the world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord" - implying that the harvesting of Christians will take place at the same time as the end of the world
Sections 9 to 10 again reject any kind of a pre-tribulation rapture
It is amazing to me that anybody can attempt to use this document to support a pre-tribulation rapture belief when it actually supports a post-tribulation resurrection position Here is the full text of both the Latin and Syraic versions of Pseudo-Ephraem.
2. As you will see, Pseudo-Ephraem teaches that Christians escape tribulation by death not rapture!
3. Rapture advocates use "Pseudo-Ephraem" as an example of rapture doctrine that was believed and taught in 375 AD. Such a use of Pseudo-Ephraem is wrong, unscholarly and desperate. But this desperation is because Pseudo-Ephraem is the only example they can find before 1830 of Rapture doctrine. Of course, Pseudo-Ephraem DOES NOT teach rapture or anything even close to it.
The Syraic text of Pseudo-Ephraem does not teach Rapture theology since the saints suffer and die during the tribulation:
1. "Nation will rise up against nation, And kingdom against kingdom. Lawlessness will be sovereign on earth And the defiled will pursue after the saints. People will openly apostatize And augment the left side; The righteous ones will suffer indignities From those who belong to the side of the sinners." (Syraic text of Pseudo-Ephraem)
2. Here we have death as an escape for the persecution, saints suffering and the devil on earth with Christians during tribulation. "Pronouncing the good fortune of the deceased Who had avoided the calamity: 'Blessed are you for you were borne away (to the grave) And hence you escaped from the afflictions! But as for us, woe is us! For when we die, Vultures will serve as escort for us!' And if the days of that time were not shortened, The elect would never survive The calamities and afflictions. For Our Lord revealed (and) disclosed to us In his Gospel when He said: 'Those days will be shortened For the sake of the elect and the saints.' And when he has harassed the whole of creation [including Christians], (When) the Son of Destruction (has bent it) to his will, Enoch and Elijah will be sent That they might persuade the Evil One. With a gentle question The saints will come before him, In order to expose the Son of Destruction Before the assemblies surrounding him: 'If you are indeed God, Tell us what we ask of you: Where is the place that you have hidden The elders Elijah and Enoch?' The Evil One will respond and say To the saints at that time...." (Syraic text of Pseudo-Ephraem)
3. Christians are killed by the devil during the tribulation: "Then the Evil One will become enraged With the saints at that time; He will draw his terrible sword And sever the necks of the righteous ones." (Syraic text of Pseudo-Ephraem)
4. Pseudo-Ephraem concludes with the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked at the same time just like the standard doctrine of the second coming that has been taught for 2000 years. "The good will go forth into the Kingdom, And the bad will remain in Gehenna; The righteous will fly up to the height, And the sinners will burn in fire." (Syraic text of Pseudo-Ephraem)
C. The Latin text of Pseudo-Ephraem does not teach Rapture theology since the saints suffer and die during the tribulation:
1. "In those days [during the tribulation] people shall not be buried, neither Christian, nor heretic, neither Jew, nor pagan, because of fear and dread there is not one who buries them; because all people, while they are fleeing, ignore them." (Latin text of Pseudo-Ephraem)
2. "Then, when this inevitability has overwhelmed all people, just and unjust, the just, so that they may be found good by their Lord; and indeed the unjust, so that they may be damned forever with their author the Devil" (Latin text of Pseudo-Ephraem)
3. The Latin Pseudo-Ephraem teaches the resurrection of Christians at the second coming when the devil will be destroyed, not the rapture: "Arise, O sleeping ones, arise, meet Christ, because his hour of judgment has come! Then Christ shall come and the enemy shall be thrown into confusion, and the Lord shall destroy him by the spirit of his mouth. And he shall be bound and shall be plunged into the abyss of everlasting fire alive with his father Satan; and all people, who do his wishes, shall perish with him forever; but the righteous ones shall inherit everlasting life with the Lord forever and ever." (Latin text of Pseudo-Ephraem)
D. The Latin text of Pseudo-Ephraem does not teach Rapture theology in the "prize passage":
1. This is the one sentence that Rapture advocates say teaches the rapture. In fact we learn from the Syriac text that these saints escape the tribulation by death not rapture! "For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins." (Latin text of Pseudo-Ephraem)
2. Pseudo-Ephraem teaches that Christians escape tribulation by death not rapture!
Saints escape tribulation by death not rapture: | |
Latin Pseudo-Ephraem | Syraic Pseudo-Ephraem |
"For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins." | "Pronouncing the good fortune of the deceased Who had avoided the calamity: 'Blessed are you for you were borne away (to the grave) And hence you escaped from the afflictions! |
Conclusion:
1. Pseudo-Ephraem does not teach the Rapture. Instead it clearly teaches that Christians will experience the tribulation and that they can escape it by death, not rapture.
2. Pseudo-Ephraem is a fraudulent and unreliable document that falsely claims to be written by Ephraem who died in the 4th century, when in fact it was clearly written AFTER the 8th century. It may have been written much later!
3. False teachers of the Rapture will have to keep looking for any scrap of evidence that any Christian believed this heresy before it was invented by John Darby in 1830 AD.
Source please.
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