Unbelieving 'born-agains'

WORLD ^ | 12/6/03 | Gene Edward Veith

[rhema]

SECULARISTS, LIBERALS, AND MUSLIMS DO NOT need to fear conservative Christians, says Dave Shiflett in The Wall Street Journal. Christians, he says, are not all that interested in converting the heathen. They don't really believe that there is such a thing as the heathen, tending to believe instead that every religion is equally valid.

"Even the most feared of Christians—the dread 'born-agains' who have cost the high priests at People for the American Way so much sleep—often embrace the modern orthodoxies of tolerance and inclusion over the traditional teachings of their faith."

He cites poll data from Christian researcher George Barna that 26 percent of born-agains believe all religions are essentially the same and that 50 percent believe that a life of good works will enable a person to get to heaven.

He goes on, though, to cite data that cast doubt on whether some of these born-again Christians will be there. More than one in three (35 percent) born-again Christians do not believe that Jesus rose physically from the dead.

Isn't that a rather important thing to believe in? Especially in light of Romans 10:9: "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord" [that they do] "and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead," [this they do not do] "you will be saved" [so are they?].

Over half of born-again Christians (52 percent), according to Mr. Barna's data, do not believe that the Holy Spirit is a living entity. In Acts 19, the Apostle Paul came across a group of people who said that they were Christians, but they had never heard of the Holy Spirit. They had to be reevangelized and rebaptized.

Slightly more born-again Christians believe in the devil than believe in the Holy Spirit, though 45 percent do not believe that Satan exists. Ten percent believe in reincarnation. Twenty-nine percent believe it is possible to communicate with the dead.

As for moral issues, one out of three born-again Christians (33 percent), according to Mr. Barna's numbers, accept same-sex unions. More than one out of three (39 percent) believe it is morally acceptable for couples to live together before marriage. And, significantly, born-again Christians are more likely than non-Christians to have experienced divorce (27 percent vs. 24 percent).

Mr. Barna defines "born-again Christians" as those who report having made a personal commitment to Christ and expect to get to heaven because they accepted Jesus. He has a subcategory of born-again Christians—"evangelicals"—who meet more stringent criteria of biblical faith. But these amount to only 8 percent of American Christians, with 33 percent being the less-orthodox "nonevangelical born-agains."

Is this rampant unbelief among people who have accepted Christ an example of biblical illiteracy? Or is it a positive conviction that faith is a purely subjective experience rather than an appropriation of objective truths?

Either way, this is strong evidence of how American Christianity is conforming to the dominant secular culture. It is all right to be religious, according to the dictates of postmodernism, as long as your faith exists just in your head. If you start claiming that your beliefs are more than just a private mental state that makes you feel good, asserting instead that what you believe is objectively real and valid for everybody, then you are an intolerant menace to society. Many Christians apparently agree, feeling solace in their own private mental decisions and mystical experiences, without reference to the God outside themselves who is revealed in His Word and in His slain and risen Son.

Preachers sometimes exhort people to "invite Jesus into your heart" without proclaiming who Jesus is and what He has done for sinners. This is evangelism that forgets to preach the gospel. The result will be "nonevangelical born-agains."

New Christians, like babies, need to be fed, taught, and cared for; otherwise, they will die in their cribs. They need intensive nourishment from the Word of God.

At least Christians are not the only ones addled by their culture into holding contradictory beliefs. Atheists are just as confused about their theology. "Half of all atheists and agnostics say that every person has a soul, that heaven and hell exist, and that there is life after death," reports Mr. Barna. Moreover, "one out of every eight atheists and agnostics even believes that accepting Jesus Christ as savior probably makes life after death possible." They believe that accepting Christ can bring eternal life, even though they don't believe in Jesus Christ. Just like "nonevangelical born-agains."

[Elsie]

That being said. I don't trust Barna. I think he is a rabble rousing stone-throwing self-appointed prophet who never takes all factors into account in his numbers.

Then do a survey at your own church and look at the numbers........

[Elsie]

Now a person can call themselves anything they want, but in order to be a Christian "born-again" or otherwise there are certain things you must accept. The Trinity, The virgin birth, the Physical resurrection, These are NOT negotiable.

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I can only find Scripture for the third item you list.

Could you point out some to uphold the first two?

[Elsie]

I find it amazing that people will spend forty years of their life preparing for their retirement years, yet will not spend forty seconds honestly considering their eternal soul.

..and Esau despised his birthright....

[Al Simmons]

Huh? Clintoon got LESS THAN 50% of the popular vote twice (a PLURALITY is NOT a MAJORITY), and the only thing that kept GWB from winning the popular vote in 2000 was the Machiavellian "early call" in Florida that discouraged voters in the West from going to the polls, plus the MASSIVE VOTER FRAUD IN LARGE DEM CITIES - (ex.- In Philadelphia, 90% of registered voters "voted", 95% for Gore. Yeah. RIGHT.)

Please do not perpetuate myths and inaccuracies.

Cordialy, Al.

[Al Simmons]

Barna is a highly reputable Christian pollster who does polls on faith and faith-based issues. He is quoted all the time in Christian (evangelical) publications and on Christian radio stations (listen to KLOVE).

[Ferret Fawcet]

bump for later reading

[dasboot]

You're right: read the article beyond the first couple paragraphs...you're right. Also checked some other stories, and they are not the same mag that I was thinking about. Sorry for the shoot-from-the-hip error.

[bethelgrad]

"Then do a survey at your own church and look at the numbers"


My church does reflect Barna's numbers. I'm not saying he is wrong. Just that he shouldn't be surprised at what he finds. It just makes sense to me that many if not most who claim to be Christian really are not. Jesus' parable about the wheat and the chaff (sp?) speak to the fact that the genuine and counterfeit will grow together.

THat coupled with the fact that churches comprise people of various levels of faith. Some really are not Christians, while others are just weaker in their faith. I don't recall that Barna takes that into account in his polling data.

[Walkin Man]

These are some sad statistics. Lots of people playing religious games I guess.

[Valin]

The Trinity
You're not going to find one verse that say something to the effect that the nature of God is trinitarian, but Here is something I ran across that may help.
The Trinity is one of the reasons I brlieve that Christianity is true. As No one in their right mind come up with such an idea that God is really 3, except god is 1, except God is 3. See what I mean? The whole thing is unnecessarily complicated.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/trin03a.html
(note a long piece, but some good stuff)
When we look at these for any patterns in them suggestive of plurality in unity, we find that the 'incipient' plurality in the OT is expanded into VERY explicit 'multiple person' statements!


1.Benedictions and blessings: Whereas in the OT the benediction form was STRICTLY that of YHWH, in the NT, the 'multiple agents' creep in.


Old Testament examples:

May God be gracious to us and bless us and make his face shine upon us, (Ps 67.1)


Say to them: "The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you; the LORD turn his face toward you and give you peace." (Num 6.23f)


Eli would bless Elkanah and his wife, saying, "May the LORD give you children by this woman (I Sam 2.20)


(But compare the benediction/prayer of Jacob in Gen 48: "Then he blessed Joseph and said, 'May the God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day, the Angel who has delivered me from all harm -- may he bless these boys. '"// here we have the Angel, but it is obvious from the construction that the three-fold phrases are ALL the same agent--'he'.)
New Testament cases:
2 Cor 13.14: May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. (2 Cor 13.14) [Notice the source of blessing has 'expanded' to a trinitarian source!]


Rom 1.7 (and 2 Cor 1.2, 1 Cor 1.3, Eph 1.2, Phil 1.2): Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (Notice the double source of grace/peace)


Rom 16.20: The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. (notice: grace comes from Jesus alone?)


I Cor 16.23: The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you.


Rev 1.4: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. (Notice: grace comes from BOTH again)


Eph 6.23: Peace to the brothers, and love with faith from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (Notice: dual source)


2 Cor 1.3-4: Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort (Note: single-source, the Father)


Gal 1.3: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. (Notice: dual-source)
Summary: the benedictions move in and out of single-Father, single-Christ, dual-Father/Son, triune statements.

The virgin birth
Luke 1:26ff
The Birth of Jesus Foretold

26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."
34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[3] the Son of God.

Matt 1:18ff
The Birth of Jesus Christ

18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[3] because he will save his people from their sins."
22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"[4] --which means, "God with us."

And of course the ever popular
Isaiah 7:14

14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you [3] a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and [4] will call him Immanuel.

[Pahuanui]

Then you need to delete Romans 10:9-10.

No, not really.

Romans 10 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Thanks, I'm well aware of the verse.

Are you using some other definition of Born Again?

If Christ is not risen in one's heart, it matters not in the slightest if the account of physical resurrection is true or false.

This comes from understanding the connotation, and not dwelling on the denotation.

[4CJ]

My GOD is alive and well. Their god is dead. Our gods are not the same.

[dasboot]

"World & I" was ,indeed , the magazine I was thinking of. My wife remembered it: we got it as a gift for a subscription to the Washington Times many years ago. I also took a look at their site: "Why We Should Mend, Not End the Estate Tax"; an article promoting universal service requirement for US citizens, etc. My apologies again.

[k2blader]

Christians need intensive nourishment from the Word of God.

If the inerrant Bible is not the foundation of a Christian's belief, what is?

And the "salvation by works" concept is perhaps the greatest deception Satan has ever pulled...

[Elsie]

I wasn't trying to suggest that I don't BELIEVE these two concepts,

but trying to find PROOF that one HAS TO believe them to be 'saved'.

Acts 8:12
 12.  But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

 

Acts 8:26-35
26.  Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Go south to the road--the desert road--that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza."
 27.  So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship,
 28.  and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the book of Isaiah the prophet.
 29.  The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it."
 30.  Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
 31.  "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
 32.  The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture: "He was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before the shearer is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
 33.  In his humiliation he was deprived of justice. Who can speak of his descendants? For his life was taken from the earth."
 34.  The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?"
 35.  Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

I'm afraid that if this much sifting through the WORD is needed, then these folks had no benefit of the NT verses that you've given.

[Elsie]

And the "salvation by works" concept is perhaps the greatest deception Satan has ever pulled...

---

And... it is STILL in some 'evangelical' churches today.

Subtle at times, but there none the less.

Consider the 'innocent' question: "Which of the Ten Commandments are we NOT supposed to follow today?"

---

The circumcision crowd NEVER rests!

[mlmr]

No problem. I have subscribed to both. World and I has a real dip of an executive editor. He gives the mag its leftist tilt.

World, on the other hand, is the Conservative, Christian version of Time or Newsweek, but with integrety.

[glaux]

Data arising from a poll is inescapably subject to bias (cultral and otherwise) and coersion (intentional or otherwise). Respondents are caught by surprise in their homes by a telephone caller and will often try to answer in a way that they perceive will please the questioner. The data is weak and the conclusions weaker still.

[WillRain]

This is true to the extent that it is true of all polling, but it seems to me that in the nature of this poll, it would tend to skew the numbers HIGHER than reality, not lower, since one would expect that the Christian (or athiest) would feel the internal coersion or bias to say what they are "supposed to say" for the belief system they claim, and conversly, if there is any external bias or coercion, one would likewise thing that Barna isn't TRYING to find only 8% of Christians are gettin it right.

To the extent that the poll (as with any polling) is inacurate, it seems to me it's more likely too favorable to the good news, rather than not enough.

[glaux]

Polls conducted over the telephone simply have no merit other than to employ pollsters. Garbage in, garage out.