Study: That Neanderthal Was Not Your Grandfather

Science - Reuters ^ | Tue Jan 27, 6:09 AM ET | Maggie Fox

[Junior]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - You may think your grandparents act like Neanderthals, but U.S. researchers said on Monday they had strong evidence that modern humans are not descended from them.

A computer analysis of the skulls of modern humans, Neanderthals, monkeys and apes shows that we are substantially different, physically, from those early humans.

New York University paleoanthropologist Katerina Harvati said Neanderthals should be considered a separate species from Homo sapiens, and not just a sub-species.

"We interpret the evidence presented here as supporting the view that Neanderthals represent an extinct human species and therefore refute the regional continuity model for Europe," she and colleagues wrote in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (news - web sites).

Some anthropologists believe that Neanderthals, who went extinct 30,000 years ago, may have at least contributed to the ancestry of modern Europeans.

There is strong evidence that Homo sapiens neanderthalis, as they are known scientifically, interacted with the more modern Cro-Magnons, who eventually displaced them. Cro-Magnons are the ancestors of modern humans, Homo sapiens sapiens.

Some research has suggested they may have interbred to a limited degree, although this is hotly disputed in anthropological circles.

At least one study that looked at fragments of Neanderthal DNA suggested any Neanderthal-Cro-Magnon offspring did not add to the modern gene pool.

Harvati and colleagues combined modern computer technology and the tried-and-true method of determining species that uses physical comparisons.

They examined the skulls of modern humans and Neanderthals and 11 existing species of non-human primates including chimpanzees, gorillas and baboons.

They measured 15 standard skull and face landmarks and used 3-D analysis to superimpose each one on the other.

"From these data, we were able to determine how much variation living primate species generally accommodate, as well as measure how different two primate species that are closely related can be," Harvati said in a statement.

Their computer analysis showed that the differences measured between modern humans and Neanderthals were significantly greater than those found between subspecies of living monkeys and apes.

[Junior]

The pendulum swings yet again.

[Conspiracy Guy]

This is a lie. I am a Neanderthal, ask anyone.

CG

[petuniasevan]

Same article different title:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1066168/posts

[ovrtaxt]

Oh, these scientists can say what they want, but anyone who watches the Democratic Party for any period of time knows that Neanderthals still roam the earth.

[martin_fierro]

Oh yeah?

Then explain my back. <|:)~

[petuniasevan]

Sicilian? :-D

[JimSEA]

To my mind, this is still an open arguement. The "out of Africa -- only" group has convincing evidence and should not use a "computer enhansed" re-do of earlier studies to stiff arm other views. I still am convinced that we oversimplify complex events, often for political or ethnocentric reasons.

[PatrickHenry]

I'm gonna do my ping in the earlier posting of this article.

[nightdriver]

"At least one study that looked at fragments of Neanderthal DNA suggested any Neanderthal-Cro-Magnon offspring did not add to the modern gene pool."

It may or may not be of much interest, but the Bible alludes to man walking the Earth before Adam and then being totally annhilated.

[TexasRepublic]

Please give us the book, chapter and verse so that we may read this for ourselves.

[job]

well I'll be a monkey's uncle, . . . or will I?

[jonno]

Just out of curiosity, how many specimens of Neanderthal have been found?

[nightdriver]

"Please give us the book, chapter and verse so that we may read this for ourselves."

Take a gander at Jeremiah 4, along about the twentieth verse, if I remember correctly. Start with the verse that says: "And I looked and there was no man....." and read down a few verses. The prophet seems to be giving a brief glimpse of a pre-Adamic time, because it doesn't fit anywhere else.

[Junior]

IIRC, the number stands at a couple of hundred. I know there were more than 100 individuals known when I was in junio high school a quarter century ago, and it seems there's been a new find reported every few months.

[thackney]

This was a vision of what could come. It gives the possibility of destruction so complete it is like before the formation of the earth.

JER 4:19 My anguish, my anguish! I writhe in pain! Oh, the walls of my heart! My heart is beating wildly; I cannot keep silent; for I hear the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war. 20 Disaster overtakes disaster, the whole land is laid waste. Suddenly my tents are destroyed, my curtains in a moment. 21 How long must I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? 22 "For my people are foolish, they do not know me; they are stupid children, they have no understanding. They are skilled in doing evil, but do not know how to do good." 23 I looked on the earth, and lo, it was waste and void; and to the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I looked on the mountains, and lo, they were quaking, and all the hills moved to and fro. 25 I looked, and lo, there was no one at all, and all the birds of the air had fled. 26 I looked, and lo, the fruitful land was a desert, and all its cities were laid in ruins before the Lord, before his fierce anger. 27 For thus says the Lord: The whole land shall be a desolation; yet I will not make a full end. 28 Because of this the earth shall mourn, and the heavens above grow black; for I have spoken, I have purposed; I have not relented nor will I turn back. 29 At the noise of horseman and archer every town takes to flight; they enter thickets; they climb among rocks; all the towns are forsaken, and no one lives in them. 30 And you, O desolate one, what do you mean that you dress in crimson, that you deck yourself with ornaments of gold, that you enlarge your eyes with paint? In vain you beautify yourself. Your lovers despise you; they seek your life. 31 For I heard a cry as of a woman in labor, anguish as of one bringing forth her first child, the cry of daughter Zion gasping for breath, stretching out her hands, "Woe is me! I am fainting before killers!"

From the Geneva Study Bible
JER 4:23 By this manner of speech he shows the horrible destruction that would come on the land and also condemns the obstinacy of the people who do not repent at the fear of these terrible kings, seeing that the insensible creatures are moved therewith, as if the order of nature would be changed,

[Revolting cat!]

I don't care. What I wanna know is: was a monkey the cat's uncle?

[Junior]

Nope. Your uncle was most likely a people. However, your very, very distant ancestors were hominids. A bit further back they would have resembled lemurs, but monkeys never enter into the picture.

[jonno]

OK - thanks!

[RadioAstronomer]

Thanks for the post. Indeed it does swing!