S. Korea:Surprising Discoveries in Silla's Royal Tomb No. 98 (including Greco-Roman artifacts)

historylove.net ^ | N/A | N/A

[Fedora]

While I was looking up that link on Ogham, I came across a few sites mentioning this--don't know how accurate this is yet, but potentially interesting:

Hindu and Celtic Culture Are One

One of the hallmarks of Celtic culture is the use of the sacred Ogham (pronounced Oh-wum) alphabet by the Druuids, who are Celtic Brahmins. Many scholars believe that Ogham was only used by the Irish, and not by other Celts. However, this is clearly disproved by many Ogham inscriptions appearing in different places, including France, Iberia (Spain and Portugal), the Danube valley, and the Tocharian regioins. Furthermore, inscriptions of Ogham have been found in ancient sites in Japan, some of them megalithic. One Japanese scholar who studies these inscriptions and the sites they are found in believes that the inscriptions indicate that some of the Buddhist monks who brought Buddhism to Japan were Tocharians, or had maintained the use of the sacred writing system of the Tocharians.

[blam]

"About 25,000 B.C. there appears in North China a new human type, found in upper layers in the same caves that sheltered Peking Man. "

Weren't you mentioning a 25k date last night for the Venus figurines and other art artifacts that had wide spread similarities?

[blam]

"One Japanese scholar who studies these inscriptions and the sites they are found in believes that the inscriptions indicate that some of the Buddhist monks who brought Buddhism to Japan were Tocharians, or had maintained the use of the sacred writing system of the Tocharians."

This is not out of line with Victor Mair's thinking.

[Fedora]

Weren't you mentioning a 25k date last night for the Venus figurines and other art artifacts that had wide spread similarities?

Yes, for the earliest known examples. But I should mention that Venus figurines of various styles appear all the way down into the Iron Age in some places (for example Syria-Palestine--Biblical Archaeological Review has run some articles on this), so there would have to be additional information to pinpoint a date for a given figurine. One thing I find interesting is that Venus figurines appear in the Indus Valley civilization towards the end of the 2nd millennium BC, which seems like it could potentially link with the Silk Road trade at that time. . .

BTW, here's something completely different I just found:

BLACK IN CHINA

The skeletal remains from southern China are predominately negroid.(Chang 1964, p.70)

[TigerLikesRooster]

Re #63

The so-called Mahayana Buddhism spread out to Central Asia first from India as far as I know. Principal inhabitants of Central Asia at the time were Caucasians. From there, it spread to Steppe nomads in the East. All barbarian dynasties in N. China after 304 AD adopted Buddhism this way. I agree that Tocharian scripts could be used for Buddhist literatures among these societies. These Northern dynasties sent missionaries to further East and South. That is how all ancient Korean kingdoms got their Buddhism, even though there is no known reference to Tocharian scripts in Korea up to now.

In China, Buddhism started to overshadow Confucianism as a state ideology. China was on the verge of civilizational collapse. Chinese population plummeted from the peak of 100 million in the late Han dynasty to mere 8 million by the time the barbarian dynasties establish themselves, according to a recent research on the historical demographic change in China. Expanding northern dynasties also brought in new cultural elements from the West and the Central Asia. China was on the defensive on both demographic and cultural front. It took China 300 years to reconstitute herself, absorbing truly diverse ethnic groups and culture from all directions, leading to the rise of Tang dynasty which was quite international in its character. It is also principally a Buddhist dynasty.

[blam]

"BLACK IN CHINA"

Thanks, I've seen this before. Negroids also turn up everywhere. I will caution you to take articles by Clyde Winters with a grain of salt though.

[Fedora]

Thanks, I've seen this before. Negroids also turn up everywhere. I will caution you to take articles by Clyde Winters with a grain of salt though.

I kinda figured a grain of salt was in order there :) That's one reason in my excerpt I included the Chang source he cites--I want to see if I can get ahold of that and see where he's getting that from. It does get me wondering about the Negroid features found in places like Melanesia, though.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

China and Rome exchanged diplomatic missions in the 2nd century AD.

Not too far to Korea from there.

[Fedora]

Very interesting info. On a related note, I have read that in the late Han period a branch of Taoism descended from one Chang Liang was influenced by the Persian religion Manicheism, which was meanwhile spreading west into the Roman Empire. Related Persian-centered movements called Nestorianism and Mazdaism also influenced Taoism starting in the 7th century.

[TigerLikesRooster]

Re #69

Daoism you refer to is quite different from Daoism of Lao-tze and Chiang-tze. The former has the definite concept of heaven and god while the latter is devoted to the ever-elusive way of nature, Dao. No deities, nor heaven nor hell.

I did not know that it was inspired by Manicheism.

There is also a religious idea spread in both directions, this time, from India. The concept of vampire was said to have originated in India. It spread to the West, resulting in all these familiar Balkan vampire myths. It also spread to the East. Chinese folklores feature a "walking dead", pale as a corpse and with blood dripping from its mouth, never allowed to die and take the final rest.

[Fedora]

My main source for the information on Taoism I mentioned is Geoffrey Parinder, World Religions, pages 189, 338, and 351. I think there is also some mention of it in John Hardon, Religions of the World, Volume 1. If this is something you're interested in more information on I can get you the specifics if you'd like.

I am very interested in the information on vampire traditions you mention. Believe it or not I am writing a vampire novel on the side, which is one reason I do the historical research I am. My story involves a vampire-worshipping cult with a branch in India, which as you may know is also where the Rom ("Gypsies") of the Balkans are believed to originate; I'm planning to tie some Indian and Balkan traditions together in that way. I'd be interested in any more information or references you have on Asian vampire traditions and their parallels with Balkan traditions. Here is one site I've found useful:

Vampires of the World: Part VI: The Undead in Asia

[Jacob Kell]

"It is a suprising assertion about which I have been having a friendly argument with Blam. He believes the Chinese First Emperor was possibly Celtic and I disagree."

Isn't blam Celtic himself? I have said that the Tocharians were mediterranean or largely mediterranean in racial type, like maybe the Iranians. I got that from surfing the newsgroups at groups.google.com. I wouldn't be surprised; however, if even back then the area was one big melting pot where different ethnic strains intermingled. Including, among others Tocharians and Iranians. Who can say for certain?

[JimSEA]

I believe you are correct but Blam has me interested and I am finally getting Mallory & Mier's book on the Tarin Mummies. They seem to be pretty fair authorities and Mallory is the one who suggest the Medditerainian orign for the Tocharians if I am not mistaken.

I am interested in the Far East and Southeast Asia because we live there about 7-8 months out of the year (my wife is Thai though now a USA citizen and educated at Univ of Arizona). I am really very much a novice but many years ago, a friend was doing salvage work for the U of A along a proposed natural gas pipeline (near Oracle, AZ) and I was lucky enough to be able to help her on my days off -- that got me started).

[Jacob Kell]

Wasn't Tocharian in the Eastern or Satem branch of the Indo-European language family? Celtic was definetely in the Western or Centum branch. I'm not surprised if even back then the area was a melting pot. Central Asia is nothing if not a region where many different strains comingled and mixed, for probably thousands of years maybe.

[SunkenCiv]

By boat, at least some of it.

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[Ptarmigan]

Interesting. Not surprising. I know Koreans had contact with many other people. Koreans are the this one pure ethnic group that we are raised into thinking. It is possible Korea in the past was a multi-ethnic society that merged together to become the Koreans we know today. Korea before the Tungus tribe came was possibly inhabited by proto-Caucasian or Australonesian people. One thing I have noticed that some Koreans have red hair. I alway wondered how that happens.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks, TigerLikesRooster. Here's a bttt:

China Unearths Ancient Caucasian Tombs
The Australian/AFP ^ | 10-25-2004
Posted on 10/24/2004 12:43:53 PM PDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1255447/posts

[SunkenCiv]

Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

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