US gay community left reeling in wake of poll

The Observer via theTaipei TImes ^ | Monday, Nov 08, 2004

[leadpencil1]

REJECTED: Some say the community is facing its worst crisis in years, after US voters showed strong opposition to gay marriage and re-elected an anti-gay president

THE OBSERVER , LONDON Monday, Nov 08, 2004,Page 7 In the bars and cafes of Dupont Circle, the center of Washington DC's gay scene, the mood is funereal. The American gay community, already reeling from a "broad and widespread assault" under a Bush presidency, now feels under siege from the country itself.

A week before polling day Washington hosted its annual High Heels Race, a sprint by drag queens that drew large and noisy crowds, both gay and straight. It was a moment of celebration, alive with the optimistic anticipation of a Kerry victory.

This weekend, after 11 states voted strongly against gay marriage and civil unions and elected Republicans who had run "gay-baiting" campaigns, gay advocates are talking about their worst crisis since the administration of Ronald Reagan or even the Stonewall riots of 1969.

Some are talking about leaving the US for good. Performance artist Tim Miller fought a high-profile funding battle with the National Endowment for the Arts that went to the Supreme Court. After traveling to Britain today for a series of shows, he says he may not return. The Californian, like thousands of gay Americans, is caught in a double bind: he is in a country he feels is rejecting him, and in a relationship with a partner who the authorities will not allow to live in the US without the protection of marriage or civil union, which it is not prepared to give.

"My partner has a UK passport," Miller said. "We are never sure whether he can stay. What little political hope we had for change has been wiped out. On Monday there were limits on Bush's power. On Tuesday night we had to have a serious conversation about whether we wanted to carry on struggling and feeling like third-class citizens.

"We have this overblown idea here that we live in the freest country in the world. But in reality we are scraping the barrel with our rights. When I pack to travel to London tomorrow it is going to have a real poignancy. We are used to setbacks, but this time it has hit people hard. It is just despair."

That sentiment seems to be reflected across the US, despite figures suggesting a significant minority of 23 percent of gay voters -- almost a million -- voted for Bush, a fact causing bafflement on gay Web sites.

"Eyes are not just on the next four years," says Jonathan Katz, a professor of gay history at Yale University, "but on the composition of the Supreme Court which, if it swings to the right, has the potential to wreak havoc for gay rights. It is the worst moment since Reaganism. I only console myself that this has been largely about gay marriage, which was not even an issue 10 years ago."

Katz worries that anti-gay political rhetoric will lead to a resurgence of homophobic violence.

"The culture now is like it was in the early 1980s, and I fear we will start seeing what we saw then," Katz said.

[DocRock]

"WOW...Where can I get that shirt?"

Sorry, but I don't know. It was a gift from sister last Christmas. But you could get some iron-on transfers, make one on your computer, print it and iron it onto a shirt! I'm thinking of doing that with the following image and putting it on the back!

[umgud]

bump for later

(I said bump, not
rump)

[Recovering_Democrat]

Look, not all gay people adopt this radical gay agenda...I know a strong gay Republican, who supports George W. in a big way.

This constant effort by the press and the extremists in the gay community does not help them.

They just don't get it.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

How would you distinguish a Ph.D. in gay history from an M.A.?

Can they get a PHD in UMB?

[okokie]

If these people were seeking only "tolerance" their plight would be better. But they seek "acceptance" or else. All this does is just divide.

THEIR AGENDA IS TO DESTROY FAMILIES NOT an innocent "Hey let us get married"

[diamond6]

"now feels under siege from the country itself. "

What a drama king!!!

[jimfree]

"The culture now is like it was in the early 1980s, and I fear we will start seeing what we saw then," Katz said.

What a moron! The culture is much more accepting of individual rights. They just tried to tell us what to do and we rejected it.

[TankerKC]

...and re-elected an anti-gay president

That's as far as I need to go.

[narses]

For those economic conservative but socially liberal folks, a silver lining. Let the British Public Health Service deal with the American Aids crisis.

[meema]

You are correct. Acceptance, to them, is not enough anymore...Now they demand our approval!

This is not something they will ever get. And it would behoove them to stop this 'shoving themselves' in our faces!

I don't care very much what they do in their private lives, but don't expect me to like paying for their diseases, and stay away from our children!

[tet68]

Are there professors of Lesbian history?
Professors of beastiality history?
Professors of pederast history?

I'm glad my education came from the school of
hard knocks.

[Army Air Corps]

According to some articles in National review over these years, the answers to your questions are: Yes, yes, and yes. Don't you love taxpayer support for "liberal education?" The students and Board of Regents of my university have fought successfully to keep 99% of this twaddle out of the classroom.

[ConservativeConvert]

American gays and lesbians have no idea how good they have it here because they have never known anything else. Meanwhile, untold millions around the world are subject to medieval persecution and - in the words of GW - "suffer in silence".

[Calusa]

If you consider heterosexual liberals especially women, marriage is about their most despised institution. They do nothing but disparage marriage. Only sexually deviant liberals want to marry. I think it's the ultimate degradation gays can visit upon the institution they hold in total contempt because it embodies their defining failure. Just as they hold themselves and their bodies in contempt. The same as (before the war) the gays really wanted to take over the military. I wonder how many of them are storming Fallujah tonight. That's why even they call themselves 'queer'.

[Helms]

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"The beloved, when he is found in any disgraceful situation, will be pained at being detected by his lover. If there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour . . . For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms. . . . Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?" -- Plato

In ancient Sparta, a soldier in training was fined if he did not have an older male lover as his mentor.

378 b.c to 2004 a.d

Pinch Sulzberger as Gorgidas ?

Gorgidas was a Theban military leader of the Sacred Band of Thebes, an elite corps of paired Theban gay lovers.

The Ancient Art of Recruiting:

Ask, Tell, and Bring Your Boyfriend, Too

Plato makes the case in his Dialogues that the best army of all would be made up of pairs of male lovers who "...when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world." The theory here is that they would fight to the death to protect each other and look good in front of their boyfriends.

Sacred Band of Thebes

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Homosexual lovers, according to Plutarch formed by the Theban commander Gorgidas. The motivation for the use of such an "Army of Lovers" in battle is also stated by Plutarch:

"For men of the same tribe or family little value one another when dangers press; but a band cemented by friendship grounded upon love is never to be broken, and invincible; since the lovers, ashamed to be base in sight of their beloved, and the beloved before their lovers, willingly rush into danger for the relief of one another."

According to Plutarch, Gorgidas initially distributed the Sacred Band of Thebes throughout his battle lines as an elite to strengthen the others' resolve, but later Pelopidas, after the Band had fought successfully at Tegyrae, used it as a sort of personal guard. For about 33 years, the Sacred Band of Thebes remained an important part of the Greek infantry.

Its defeat came at the Battle of Chaeronea, the decisive battle in which Philip II of Macedon and his son Alexander the Great ended Greek independence of the city-states. The Band fought on until every man was killed.

Plato wrote about the code of honor of the Sacred Band of Thebes:

"The beloved, when he is found in any disgraceful situation, will be pained at being detected by his lover. If there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour... For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms... Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?"

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[Rightwing Conspiratr1]

Jonathan Katz, a professor of gay history at Yale University

What!?? Does Yale have professors of bestiality history and necrophilia history too?!

[who_would_fardels_bear]

"despite figures suggesting a significant minority of 23 percent of gay voters -- almost a million -- voted for Bush"

1) About 117 million people voted in the last election.

2) There are about 293 million people in the U.S.

3) From the quote above there are about 4.3 million gay voters.

4) If gays vote at the same rate as the rest of the population, then there are about 11 million gays.

5) That would represent about 3.6% of the population

But I thought they were about 10% of the population.

Surprise, surprise the gays have lied to us again!

[who_would_fardels_bear]

Civil Unions are the moral (or rather amoral) equivalent of the military's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Since the U.S. government can't sanctify a marriage, it can only sanction them with all of the associated benefits.

If the U.S. or the individual state governments hand out all of the benefits to gay couples, then the government will in effect be sanctioning them. There will be no difference between Civil Unions and Marriages.

Either homosexual unions are OK or not OK. Either we should allow them to call themselves married or stop them from getting civil unions. If they want to form a corporation or draw up contracts or powers of attorneys for each other, let them do it on their own time and dime.

Let's not be weaselly about it.

Everyone knows that the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy is an amoral stepping stone to the gay lobby's ultimate goal of full acceptance of openly gay people in the military.

Civil Unions are the same type of amoral stepping stone toward full acceptance of gay marriage.

We need to draw a line in the sand ... which unfortunately we won't ... now!

[garyhope]

No, not even our approval, our submission.

Gay or straight, I don't care what you do behind your private bedroom door as long as it doesn't hurt someone or thing and as long as you don't feel compelled to tell me about it or show it to me. I'd like everyone's behavior in public to be restrained and discreet. Gay or straight, no slobbering or overt sexual acts. I'd like peace and quiet. No yelling or shouting. Please contain all of your bodily fluids. Bathe or shower, comb your hair, clean undies, etc. Zat fair?

I also don't want to hear about your diet or my diet or lack thereof. If movie or music stars feel compelled to lecture me on their politics, I'd like to force them to attend lectures on economics and particle physics in return

It's the age of emotional hysteria. Like gays are going to be rounded up and tortured. As if we could shut up anyone in this country. People just blather on endlessly. There's never a moments quiet. Everyone is always aggreived, oppressed or being discriminated against. Gosh, you'd think they were white male Republicans or something. Then they'd really have something to worry about.