Replies

Re: "What about Huss and Wycliff? They were before Luther, too. Luther said, "I have taught and held all the teachings of John Huss, but thus far did not know it. In short we all are Hussites and did not know it!" "

The problem is these fellows were Heretics in fact the problem with many of the heretics is they do not agree on important issues. Say Heretic "A" from 3rd Century and Heretic "B" from the 13th agree on one issue (take your pick what issue) without a doubt they disagree on a different issue of great importance. You can go from age to age picking this heretic and that like hoping rocks across a the centuries but you have no seamless garment. Your doctrine waxes and wanes with each and every issue. So much for the unchanging nature of God. So much for Christ's warning "if a angel from Heaven teaches a new doctrine do not follow". There is no Protestant doctrine that is unchanging and constant from the time of Christ.

Re: "But if your infallible pope proclaims him a Saint, you must accept it. And there was a Catholic/Lutheran accord signed in 1998 regarding a common view of salvation by grace. Hmm... "

Infallible is not all encompassing. The Papacy of JPII never claimed to speak infallibility during his entire tenure. This would include the accord you speak about. I do know it does not cover matters of discipline. Ergo an excommunication is never Infallible or any other form of correction for misdeeds. That should give Queen Elizabeth I some small comfort. But I really do not know if it covers the canonization process. I suspect it does but you will have to ask someone with more info than I on this issue. Besides it hasn't happened yet.

While we are on the subject I would like to point out the opinions expressed by saints are not binding on the faithful, nor are their private revelations. When the Church makes them a saint they are supposed to have checked into any reason that would make them unqualified and at least you can be sure their words were not Heretical but that would mean a Martin Luther and a John Knox could not be a saint. Since none of these have been made saints that is an issue I do not need to worry about right now.

Re: "The plus side of papal infallibility, of course, is that the Vatican supported the South in the Civil War ;-)"

//sigh//
Alas this is not covered by the dogma of infallibility either.

Infallibility has very specific aspects to it, current events and local wars do not fit the bill unless they are centered around a doctrinal issue.

So much for the unchanging nature of God. So much for Christ's warning "if a angel from Heaven teaches a new doctrine do not follow". There is no Protestant doctrine that is unchanging and constant from the time of Christ.

The same can be pointed out re: certain Catholic doctrines, eg. Icons were condemned at one point, then permitted later. The whole complex of Marian doctrines has undergone considerable "development" since the time of Christ also.

BTW, Huss' original beef was that the Church was denying the cup to the laity, and the cup was required for salvation: "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life..." The Orthodox, to their credit, have preserved the cup. The RC church started denying the cup.... when, exactly?

Well, you know the saying: If you find the perfect church, don't join it.