[wideawake]

I'm not aware of Homer describing Helen as "shimmering" and the ancient Greeks were not physically identical to modern Greeks.

The Greeks of Homer's world were descendants of several waves of Northern invasions. Blondism and green and blue eyes were quite common among ancient Greeks.

Greeks today are descendants of a variety of nationalities - urban Greece in the 1st century AD was the rough equivalent of NYC today - a broad mixture of ethnicities.

[jpsb]

"The Greeks of Homer's world were descendants"

I have always thought proto-celts or some other northern/east asian peoples. I have also wondered just what the heck happened to the bronze age Greeks? Did not Greece go thru it's own a dark age 1500BC - 800BC? Wonder why?

[RobbyS]

I have heard that the present day Greeks are largely the descendents of Germans and Slavs who came in during the barbarian migrations.

[19th LA Inf]

I'm not aware of Homer describing Helen as "shimmering"

I think it's in the Oddyssey, where Telemachos pays her a visit while he is out looking for Dad. Of course, she was a little on the shady side of thirty by then.

[Regulator]

As far as some ancient Greeks being fair haired and blue eyed, it's interesting to trace the location of the genotype (in this case, the Y DNA haplogroup) that is usually associated with such physical characteristics: Haplogroup migrations (page down to European migration discussions).

Note that the I haplogroup centers in the Balkans about 12000 years ago, and migrates north as the ice recedes. This haplogroup is associated now with northwestern Germans, Dutch, and the Scandinavians, as well as Anglo-Saxon English. The Celts, by contrast, are represented to some degree by the R1b haplotype, who apparently took refuge in present day Spain during the Ice Ages, and spread back north about the same time. Eventually the two groups mixed in France and Britain.

But it seems apparent that Southeastern Europe used to have a lot of people we would now think of as belonging only to Northern Europe.

[apro]

Quote"-I'm not aware of Homer describing Helen as "shimmering" and the ancient Greeks were not physically identical to modern Greeks.-"Quote

They didn't change that much either, if you look at all the pottery and statues that have been unearthed, modern Greeks look pretty similar to their ancestors.

Quote"-The Greeks of Homer's world were descendants of several waves of Northern invasions. Blondism and green and blue eyes were quite common among ancient Greeks."-Quote

Blondism/red hair and green/blue eyes are still very common among modern Greeks just as dark hair and dark eyes is. Here are a few pics of modern Greeks who are fair:

http://www.geocities.com/mtsiaklis2001/zl02.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mikellino2002/chrisa.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/dienekesp2/moderngreeks/w2/chara.jpg
http://www.santasofiagr.com/marianta016.jpg
http://www.santasofiagr.com/marianta017.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/dienekesp2/moderngreeks/w2/katia_zygouli.jpg
http://top-class.gr/modelsmen/dimitris_galanidis/picture3l.jpg
http://img.pathfinder.gr/clubs/images/95/125895/2.jpg
http://freeweb.supereva.com/ritroritro/mastrokosta4.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mtsiaklis2008/vk116.jpg
http://www.greekshops.com/images/Top40/manto_03.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mikellino2002/nath4.jpg
http://galeon.hispavista.com/dimiscp2/DSCP2_029_Vicky_Mpartzioka_and_Tania_Mavraki-01.jpg
http://homepages.pathfinder.gr/greekbeautifulwomen/kartsona.htm
http://www.geocities.com/mtsiaklis2004/akpic11.jpg
http://top-class.gr/models/eleana_vlahou/picture1l.jpg
http://www.marialouiza.net/photos/tilethea/tlth01_1.jpg
http://www.marialouiza.net/photos/thle/til_0201.jpg
http://www.missuniverse.com/delegates/2005/images/main/GR.jpg
http://media.santabanta.com/gal/mu2003/swim/greece1.jpg
http://www.tvzapping.gr/Images/zz581.gif
http://top-class.gr/models/konstantina_kalesiou/picture1l.jpg
http://greece.hispeed.com/mv12.jpg
http://greece.hispeed.com/kz11.jpg
http://top-class.gr/models/jenny_methot/picture2l.jpg
http://media.santabanta.com/gal/mw2004/sizzler/greece3.jpg
http://greece.hispeed.com/is12.jpg
http://top-class.gr/models/julia_pilitsidou/picture6l.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/models/julia_pilitsidou/picture3l.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/models/thomi_drakondi/picture2l.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/dienekesp2/moderngreeks/w1/laura_mouriki.jpg
http://top-class.gr/models/laura_mouriki/picture5l.jpg
http://top-class.gr/models/agapi_kapetanopoulou/picture3l.jpg
http://top-class.gr/models/anna_biyinna/picture3l.jpg
http://freeweb.supereva.com/ratareta/kartsona8.jpg
http://top-class.gr/models/mei_papalexiou/picture1l.jpg
http://top-class.gr/models/maria_michelakou/picture2l.jpg
http://freeweb.supereva.com/ringhiotto/michelakou12.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/modelsmen/angelos_papias/picture1l.jpg
http://stvc.interfree.it/WorldCelebs/Grecia/CristinaDesli(grecia)8.JPG
http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/pictures/greekwomen/malisianou.jpg
http://www.nikos-chrisikakis.net/new/portraits/mastrokosta/3.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/dienekesp2/moderngreeks/w1/angela_markaki.jpg
http://top-class.gr/models/olga_tsikalidou/picture2l.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mikellino2002/analise4.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/modelsmen/alexis_malega/picture1l.jpg
http://www.hawaiiantropicgirls.com/model.php?modelID=1044314758
http://www.geocities.com/dienekesp2/moderngreeks/w1/anna_maria_papadopoulou.jpg
http://www.greece.hispeed.com/ka11.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/fricchiogeo/FeyMakri.jpg
http://greece.hispeed.com/mm29.jpg
http://www.greekchicago.com/gallery/albums/greece-euro-cup-2004/15_G.jpg
http://news.tom.com/img/assets/200309/030916213057zk20030916-32.jpg
http://www.greece.hispeed.com/yd09.jpg
http://greece.hispeed.com/mm24.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/dienekesp2/moderngreeks/w2/dimitra_kitsiou.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/modelsmen/leonidas_siamanidis/picture4l.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/dienekesp2/moderngreeks/w2/eleftheria_pantelidaki.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mikellino2002/filipa3.jpg
http://www.santasofiagr.com/natassa002.jpg
http://www.link2look.com/gallery/abc/228/19_558x800.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/dienekesp2/moderngreeks/w2/katerina_georgiadou.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/modelsmen/teo_theodoridis/picture1l.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/models/eleni_pandi/picture3l.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/models/eva_geovanekou/picture1l.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/dienekesp2/moderngreeks/w1/chrysanthi_dafla.jpg
http://www.link2look.com/gallery/abc/228/1_558x800.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mikellino2002/alimono2kalosmaal.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mikellino2002/sofia-rapth6.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mikellino2002/katerina_georgiadou.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/mtsiaklis2004/giolanda4.jpg

Few modern Greek tikes:
http://top-class.gr/modelkids/girls/99-01/g4.jpg
http://top-class.gr/modelkids/boys/94-95/b1.jpg
http://top-class.gr/modelkids/girls/94-96/g1.jpg
http://top-class.gr/modelkids/boys/00-02/b3.jpg
http://top-class.gr/modelkids/girls/97-99/g2.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/modelkids/girls/92-94/g6.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/modelkids/girls/99-01/g3.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/modelkids/girls/99-01/g6.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/modelkids/boys/89-93/b3.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/modelkids/girls/94-96/g2.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/modelkids/boys/00-02/b2.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/modelkids/boys/00-02/b4.jpg
http://www.top-class.gr/modelkids/girls/97-99/g5.jpg

Greeks, both modern and ancient, have always come in all colors: blond/red/brown/black haired, brown/blue/green eyed, fair/olive skinned. What is rare in Greece are people of other races. By that I mean people of African, Asian, Oriental, etc. descent. Its only been in the last 15 years that you would see people of other races in the country and they are still a rarity.

Quote-"Greeks today are descendants of a variety of nationalities -urban Greece in the 1st century AD was the rough equivalent of NYC today - a broad mixture of ethnicities."-Quote

Greece did have some mix of ethnicity but I would not say it was equivalent to any that NYC has today and not to the extend that some believe it to be. The remarkable power of assimilation which the Greeks possesed in virtue of their ethnic civilizations through out the centuries has shown for the most part that the Hellenic element must have always been the most numerious in order to effect so complete an absorption of any suppose re-population of non Hellenic peoples. This element has apparently been a repeat theme with Hellenic civilizations through out their existance. Even the destructive invasions of the Goths in A.D. 267 and 395 introduced no new ethnic feature; the various races which during the middle ages obtained partial or complete mastery in Greece, the Franks, the Venetians, the Turks, contributed little to no appreciable ingredient to the mass of the population. The modern Greeks may therefore be regarded as in the main the descendants of the populations which inhabited Greece in ancient times.

My family moved to the States in 1979 when I was young kid. Don't mean to sound weird or anything here but I never saw a person of another race until we moved to the states. The only ethnicity I saw and was familiar with was an all white Greek one. You had gypsie here and there but they were mostly outcasts, I know, not PC but that's how the country was. The only ethnicities I was familiar with before moving as a young kid to the states was the Muslims, who to most Greeks were only the Turks, and the gypsies. The first non white person I saw in Greece was Asian back in 1985, she was a highschool friend of one of my cousin's and I think her family might have been the only Asians in the whole country back then. LoL! When I first met her, I expected her to start talking English not Greek and it sruck me odd when I heard her speaking Greek because being just a naïve kid I thought Asians, Blacks, Latinos etc. only spoke English since the first place I saw any people of other races and nationalities was in the States. So, I associated them as such. Yeah I know stupid but like I said, I was a naive kid and didn't know better. Seriously its only been in the last 15 years that a variety of other nationalities and races have been moving into the country where you can see their presence, by that I mean language, ethnicity, nationality etc. and even that is still in its infancy.