The Fence [It Works Great In Israel And India So Why Not In The USA ALERT?]

Ah, makes for very nice reading. I'm loving it! Very soon we'll have one of these too.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_08/b3871062.htm

Building Fences -- And Growing Closer
From security to information technology, business ties between India and Israel are proliferating

The disputed state of Kashmir couldn't look less like the narrow strip of desert that forms most of Israel. Peaks in the territory rise to more than 8,500 meters, and the area is known for its lush valleys and remote Himalayan beauty. Israel's Magal Security Systems Ltd., though, feels right at home in the thin mountain air.

The company, best known for its role in building a security fence dividing Israel from the West Bank, is providing technology such as cameras and motion detectors for a similar barrier in Kashmir. The 150-kilometer fence is aimed at keeping terrorists from crossing the Line of Control, the de facto border between the Indian- and Pakistani-administered portions of Kashmir. So far, Magal's technology has been deployed on just 5.5 km of the project, but the company is aiming to get a much bigger share of the barrier being built along the 740-km border. "India is a great market for Israeli companies," says Magal's president, Izhar Dekel.

AIRCRAFT AND ASSAULT RIFLES. Plenty of Israeli companies apparently agree. Bilateral trade between India and Israel has soared from $140 million in 1990 to $1.6 billion in 2003 -- and that doesn't include arms deals, which Israel doesn't report. Business is so brisk that during a recent three-day visit to India, Israel's Foreign Minister, Silvan Shalom, announced his country would reopen its consulate in Bombay and met with his Indian counterpart, Yashwant Sinha.

Officially, India was Israel's eighth-largest export market last year. But when you add in an estimated $4 billion in Phalcon aircraft, Tavor assault rifles, and other hardware that India has contracted to buy, the country in coming years will likely be among the top four markets for Israeli goods, defense officials say.

India and Israel have long had cordial relations. But both sides kept quiet about it, worried about alienating India's 160 million Muslim citizens and damaging India's strong ties with the Arab world. Now the friendship is finally coming out of the shadows. In the wake of a series of assaults on India attributed to Pakistani-backed militants, the latest intifada in the Middle East, and September 11, the two countries perceive that they have a common enemy: Islamic terrorism. "India and Israel are natural allies," says New Delhi defense analyst Maroof Raza.

So it's no surprise that the relationship emphasizes security. Last year, India, the U.S., and Israel held a trilateral security conference where intelligence and military brass discussed common threats. A second such meeting is scheduled for Feb. 15 in Israel. In fact, Washington may be encouraging stronger ties between its two allies so it can nurture its fragile relationship with Pakistan. Buying arms from Israel "gives the Indians access to the most sophisticated Western military technology," says Gerald M. Steinberg, a political scientist at Israel's Bar-Ilan University, while letting the U.S. avoid the appearance of arming Pakistan's rival.

That's leading to a booming arms trade. After peaking in 2002, Israel's defense exports declined by 37% last year, but in 2004 they're expected to grow again, largely because of sales to India. This year, India has earmarked an extra $5.5 billion to buy new materiel from abroad, making it one of the world's largest arms buyers. Israel is India's second-largest weapons supplier, after Russia. At the Defexpo India arms fair in New Delhi in early February, Israel had the second-largest delegation after Great Britain, with companies such as Israel Aircraft Industries and Elbit Systems pitching everything from radar to pilotless aircraft.

So far, the growing ties haven't jeopardized India's relations with the Arab world. Last summer, Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee visited Iran, Syria, and Libya to reaffirm old friendships, and was warmly welcomed. Nor has the Kashmir fence endangered the tentative peace process between India and Pakistan that was set in motion in January.

Meanwhile, commerce in nonmilitary sectors is expanding. The number of Israeli companies with offices in India has doubled since 1998, as they seek both to sell their goods and to use India as a production base. Shipper Zim Israel Navigation Co. in February added a third weekly run to its Western Europe-India cargo route. Last year, Israel's Teva Pharmaceuticals Ltd. spent $8.7 million to buy J.K. Drugs & Pharmaceuticals, an Indian maker of bulk formulas. Looking to benefit from India's skilled programmers, Tel Aviv-based Ness Technologies, Israel's largest IT services outfit, in July acquired Indian software developer Apar Infotech for $78 million. Apar's 1,000 engineers and programmers in Bangalore and Bombay now provide research and development for Ness. "Our Indian experience has worked out far beyond our wildest dreams," says Ness chief executive Raviv Zoller. Tel Aviv's Magic Software, which has been in India since 1997, is planning to add another 25 engineers to its 100-person development center in Pune this year. And Israeli flag carrier El Al Airlines has seen cargo traffic to India increase sixfold in the past three years. In November it added a third weekly passenger flight to the subcontinent, though it can still be tough to get a reservation. "I can't even get a business class seat to Bombay, and now have to go via Europe or Jordan," grumbles Anat Bernstein-Reich, a Tel Aviv consultant who advises companies on doing business in India.

SAVE WATER AND POWER. Israeli companies are also helping modernize India's archaic agricultural sector. Tel Aviv-based Netafim, the world's biggest drip irrigation company, in January signed a two-year, $20 million contract with the southern state of Andhra Pradesh to help improve crop yields while saving water and power. An earlier, smaller project was so successful that some farmers using the drip technology are growing pickling cucumbers for export. Israel Chemicals Ltd., meanwhile, supplied $80 million in potash and other fertilizers to India in 2003, up by 25% over the past two years.

Investment, though, remains mostly a one-way street. Other than about 30 Indian diamond merchants who main- tain offices in Tel Aviv, Indian investment in Israel is minimal, says Satish Mehta, India's commercial attaché in Israel. But, he says, India is doing what it can to boost the two-way flow of investment and expects it to grow as India continues to liberalize its economy. In May, the Indian embassy is sponsoring a biotechnology conference so that "Indian and Israeli companies can get together and explore business opportunities," says Mehta. Similar conferences in Tel Aviv last summer on telecommunications and agriculture both produced a flurry of deals.

Culturally, the two countries are coming closer together, too: The beaches of Goa are increasingly popular for young Israelis after they finish their three-year military service. And once-scarce Bollywood musicals are seen more often in Israeli cinemas these days. With help from fence-builders and other businesses, barriers between the two nations are falling fast.

By Manjeet Kripalani in Bombay and Neal Sandler in Jerusalem

Line of Control, Kashmir, India.

Saturday, December 31st, 2005
The Fence

The House’s proposal to build a 700-mile fence at the US-Mexico border has come in for much criticism, with Mexico saying that it “is not going to bear, it is not going to permit, and it will not allow a stupid thing like this wall.”

Leaving aside the delusional state of Mexico’s government officials, who apparently believe that they rule the United States, just how effective would a fence be? Is there any comparable example elsewhere in the world?

Well, there is:

While the world’s attention has been focused on the Israeli security barrier sealing off the West Bank, India has been building a far longer fence to keep out Islamic militants, thwart cross-border smuggling and stop human trafficking.

More than 1,300 miles of the barrier has been erected in the six years since building began. Snaking through jungles, rivers and the villages of five states, Delhi’s floodlit, 12ft double fence packed with razor wire will render India a fortress against her neighbour.

…

Officials say that the fence has already stemmed the flow of illegal Bangladeshi immigrants attempting to cross into India from about 65,000 annually a decade ago to just 10,000 this year.

Shivajee Singh, a border security force inspector-general, said: “When the fence was put up the numbers came down.”

India is still finishing the fence, but it’s already almost twice the length of the proposed US-Mexico fence.

If a cash-strapped country like India can control its borders by building a fence, surely American ingenuity can accomplish the same thing?

And how are Mexican officials going to stop the US from building a fence? With the famed might of the Mexican army?

-- PoliPundit

Posted at 5:32 am Link to this post | Comments (367)

We're thinking of this backwards. We should make Mexico a state and then all the folks that keep breaking the law will run south to the 'other' America.

For a fence to work we would have to extend the wall all the way along the southern land border of the US considering the entrances from the Gulf of Mexico. Its not just for Cubans anymore.

The illegal alien problem would go away overnight if their social costs were deducted directly from the congressional payroll.

The equivalent concept used with minefields is to canalize, or channel, people towards an area that can be easily monitored. So it is possible to seriously curtail movement without a continuous fence. Then again, a continuous fence is not a bad idea either, but the 700 mile length proposed is a great place to start!!

--as was pointed out several times yesterday, the Mexican government should welcome the fence--it would keep out all those firearms that are purportedly being taken to Mexico--

Click to see other threads related to illegal aliens in America

Kudos to all who've written their Congress-critters demanding action on this issue...

One argument that gets overlooked is that the fence will help keep illegals that are already here and commit other crimes from easily running back to mexico to avoid capture...Build the Fence...</p>

Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!

Support our Minutemen Patriots!

Be Ever Vigilant ~ Bump!

A border primer:

This is what most of our southern border looks like: there is no government-built fence at all. There is often just whatever is left over from some forgotten cattle fence, built privately to keep U.S. cattle from wandering freely into Mexico. For hundreds of miles there is not even a broken cattle fence, there is nothing at all.

For comparison, below the broken cattle fence photo is a sample of an inexpensive but highly effective double border fence system, with a plowed strip to reveal footprints. This type of system is very cheap and can be built with great speed.

Here is what some of San Diego County has: a wall made of rusty Viet Nam-era runway mats. The corrugations are even horizontal, (to make climbing easier?) The illegals in this photo were spotted by unexpected civilian volunteers, and jumped back over the border.

Here is what the border looks like where the runway mat wall exists. Mexico begins on the other side of the ineffective rusty wall, which actually helps the smugglers, by hiding their movements until the occasional USBP vehicle has driven out of sight.

This is how "the game" is played. Smugglers hide on the other side of the wall with their dope and/or their illegals, out of sight of the USBP. They wait for the highly visible white BP vehicle to drive over the distant hills. Lookouts with cell phones and walkie-talkies report on the current locations of the BP units. They know with certainty that "the coast is clear" for an hour or two, and the smugglers and illegals hop the fence and run into the scrub only 50 yards away. From there, they are out of sight, and they walk 1-2 miles to holding houses. Then they wait for nightfall, and are picked up and driven in vans to LA or San Diego.

Lastly, below is the Duncan Hunter 15' fence, which is already being built along a few "showplace" miles of San Diego, mainly near the ports of entry, where panderng politicians can conveniently show it off to gullible reporters. The House has approved building 700 miles of it, which would be a great start. As you can see, the rusty runway wall is seen at the left side, Mexico begins on the other side. In areas with the 15 foot fence, dope smugglers and illegals will have to cross the open sand ("the government road" as it is called) before starting to try to get over the 15 foot fence. It's extremely tough, and resists cutting. Attacking the fence would have to be done right out in the open, in full view of cameras. This type of fence, on the U.S. side of the government road, will give the USBP a barrier to patrol, instead of forcing them to chase illegals around 100,000 square miles of wide-open frontier land, which is a fool's errand.

Fence Ping!

Please FReepmail me if you want on or off this South Texas/Mexico ping list.

I fail to see how a 700 mile fence along a 3000 mile border is going to be significant, especially since they go under and through the fences that are already built in California.

Great photos of the Indian fence! The Mexicans also know a high tech fence would work and would fence them out. They're jumping up and down in fury at the prospect. Like Mexican jumping beans. Illegal aliens are the bane of America and their illegal entry scams will soon come to an end.

Israel's border fence and wall

I fail to see how a 700 mile fence along a 3000 mile border is going to be significant, especially since they go under and through the fences that are already built in California.

Israel's experience proves you wrong. The fence has to be a serious fence. Not just thrown together to pacify angry Americans

The fence is indeed a good idea.In India it took care of the bangladeshi migrants and terroists to an extend.

What happens if they walk around the end of the fence at say the 715 mile marker?

All you are doing with a 700 mile fence is moving the illegal entry points further east like squeeezing a balloon at one end.

And my end is Texas where we have a horrible problem of out own, thank you very much.

There's no question in my mind that a fence would work wonders here in the US concerning illegal immigrants from both Canada and Mexico though the Mexican part of the equation is a much larger than the Canadians part. The only people who think it's a bad idea are imbeciles. The question of security at our borders post 9/11 is reason enough to have this fence, and not just on the Mexican Border. Further, The United States Constitution requires our Govt. to secure our Borders, so they are in effect breaking Constitutional Law regarding open borders.

Texas should also be fortified. Dump Bull Sharks into the Rio Grande.