Maybe if you found yourself one of these...
Posted on 02/26/2006 5:41:59 AM PST by Joe Republc
MANCHESTER — A traveling conference advocating the heterosexual lifestyle came to the suburbs of west St. Louis County on Saturday. As gay-rights groups staged a peaceful protest outside the First Evangelical Free Church, conventioneers spent the day inside, mostly listening to speakers who say they were previously gay. Parents of gay and lesbian children got advice and could speak to counselors about what to do, short of accepting their child's behavior. "We suggest you decline an invitation to a civil commitment ceremony," Melissa Fryrear told a group of parents. Some busily took notes; a few others wiped away tears. "So many Christians are yielding on this part," she said. The Love Won Out event was sponsored by Focus on the Family, a conservative Christian group that Fryrear works for in Colorado, and Exodus International, an umbrella group of ministries by formerly gay people. The conference is in its eighth year, but this is its first time in St. Louis.
(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...
The comment I found most interesting was "(w)hat makes me so angry is that a lot of clergy and straight folks aren't speaking out about this (that is, against the Love Won Out conference)."
FYI, the church holding the event did get egged earlier this month.
-- Joe
Gay activists don't like it when anyone suggests that homosexuality isn't necessarily a permanent, genetic-based orientation worthy of minority status and consequent political clout. There are actually plenty of ex-gays out there (I personally know two formerly "decidedly" gay men who have been happily married to women for years), but they rarely get any press coverage or support.
I noticed that quote too, she sounds like a person who just complains about everything. Did she overlook all the protesters who were outside? She got 1000 people on the inside, 300 people on the outside, on opposite sides, but all unquestionably "speaking out".
I can imagine that with hard work and discipline, homosexuals can change their behavior. But I'm dubious that their basic orientation can change. As a heterosexual male, I can't ever imagine ceasing to find women attractive. Why would it be possible for homosexuals to cease finding the same sex attractive?
Maybe if you found yourself one of these...
There’re lots of ex- schizophrenics too, but that doesn’t mean genetics play no large role. I doubt many people, including myself, would be excited about an “ex”-homosexual starting a family with their daughter.
Not having been gay, the only comparison I can think of is if I ever became single again. As a Christian, I would be committed to be celibate until I had re-married. That would hard in today's culture. I would have to restrict myself from lots of movies, TV, internet sites, and meat market bars. And I would have to say no to women I dated. That would be counter-cultural, and contrary to my impulses.
In other words, to avoid sexual sin I would needs lots of prayer, support, and reasonable 'fences' around my activities to avoid temptation.
Come to think of it, I'll have to give my three kids the same thing! It can be done... monogamy used to be the cultural expectation, and has in fact been done by people throughout history.
-- Joe
Nor would I be happy about an ex-womanizer marrying my daughter.
As is the case with a lot of mistakes and bad lifestyle choices, I would really want to see how much the person is committed to repent of the old and work hard to succeed with the new way. If they act like the old way was just a trivial phase in their life, that would raise a big red flag. My daughter could become the next phase in their life, as was the case for the wives of Michael Jackson and Elton John.
-- Joe
And so?
Leaving everything else aside for a moment, just put what you're saying in another framework. I'll re-word what you said:
"I can imagine that with hard work and discipline, married men can change their behavior. But I'm dubious that their basic orientation can change. As a heterosexual male, I can't ever imagine ceasing to find other women attractive. Why would it be possible for married men to cease finding multiple women attractive?"
Then put the same thing in the framework of being attracted to children, rape, animals, what-have-you.
Everyone has desires; everyone has wrong desires. How do we know they're wrong? What do we do about them?
That's the central question, the central issue. There are basically only two answers: (1) we can't ever know, so we make it up; or (2) God said.
Same. And I think and ex-homosexual would be worse because he has a higher chance of not only leaving her alone with kids, but with kids and aids.
Another quick thought...
Typically missing from the MSM are the facts about the gay lifestyle is terribly unhealthy, and that there are people that DO want to get out.
-- Joe
Or 3) Because they’re counterproductive to our lives.
Nope, won't work. How do you know what's counterproductive? Are you omniscient? Even so, what you've come up with is not a morality, it's just a technique or a method. It isn't in any way transcendent. It rests on another unprovable assumption which has no authority.
IOW, you made it up.
There are just the two options.
Dan
Considering how tolerant the left is, they should consider it lucky they were only egged. Leftist lately seem to like to burn things down.
Whether it is genetic or a learned behavior, the positive reinforcement over the years does make it tough to completely rid your thoughts of the old lifestyle. I am not sure it is an attracting thing as much as a sex and acceptance thing. Things that people once found repulsive can actually become an attraction or a fetish if positively reinforced enough. Sexuality is largely in the head, IMHO. Which is why the gay lobby is working hard to label kids and get into the classroom at a young age.
Dan, with 3 possible sources for morality, 1) made up, 2) God and 3) identifying what’s productive, you’re telling me that #1 and #3 are synonymous. I could make the same case that #1 & #2 are synonymous, but confidence in my ideology is not dependent on disparagement of yours.
Sometimes actions consistent with Objectivist morality are clearer than others. Same with theistic based morality. Neither of us are omniscient or transcendent in our interpretations of reality or theology, but I wouldn’t be so insecure in my ideology as to accuse your judgment calls as “just being made up”.
Would you apply that same dichotomy to the "Golden Rule"? Does treating others as one would wish oneself to be treated not have a utilitarian value?
(I personally know two formerly "decidedly" gay men who have been happily married to women for years.
I've known gay men who were married to women also and they're still gay, always were and will likely be gay always. One's marital status has little to do with orientation. One may wish to live a so called Normal life and could go through all the steps necessary to achieve that but one can't wish away one's natural orientation.
Think honestly for a minute and think through how you might try to change your heterosexual orientation in your own mind. Very unlikely you could I would think. Those that say they have were most likely not gay in the first place and/or were bi-sexual or emotionally screwed up.
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