Apostle to the Irish: The Real Saint Patrick

Breakpoint with Charles Colson ^ | March 17, 2006 | Charles Colson

[docbnj]

"The Irish of the fifth century were a pagan, violent, and barbaric people."

And today . . .

[kellynla]

I realize you're relatively new around here but take your flame baiting Irish bigotry elsewhere.

[joesnuffy]

Even better than being English...St. Paddy was also a Protestant..before their even were such things...as 'luck' would have it.

Tis enough to make a Lepra'cohen cry 'aye' tis true...(originally pronounced oye)...inna enough to find out St Paddy is really English? and now to find Lepracohens are actually Jewish?)

It's enough to 'drive an Irishman to drink'...on the other hand the only excuse he needs for that...is to still be breathin' and maybe not even that...

[karnage]

With what has been happening to the Church in Ireland recently ("liberalizing" laws, plummeting church attendance, ordaining very few new priests), it seems a new St. Patrick is needed.

[Bosco]

Do tell, what's your ethnic heritage, docbnj?

[Verginius Rufus]

The Venerable Bede doesn't mention St. Patrick in his Ecclesiastical History of the English People but he does claim that there are no reptiles in Ireland:

"No reptile is found there nor could a serpent survive; for although serpents have often been brought from Britain, as soon as the ship approaches land they are affected by the scent of the air and quickly perish." (Ch. 1).

The Maltese claim that there are no snakes on Malta because St. Paul drove them out.

[Vectorian]

Unlikely and debatable. If you know your history, Scotland did not exist at the time of St Patricks birth - it was known as Caledonia by the Romans and inhabited by the Picts. The Irish Scots tribe did not invade from Ireland and give their name to this region until the 6th century. Thus, even if St Patrick was born in Kilpatrick, which many doubt, it was not Scottish at the time, therefore he was not Scottish. Caledonia was not colonised by the Romans yet St Patricks name, Patricius is clearly of Roman-British descent, something which would be very unlikely in Celtish caledonia at the time.

So, we can conclude that he defintely wasn't Irish, definitely wasn't Scottish, but that he was probably of Romano-British stock and given his name, he was likely to be from below Hadrians wall rather than above it.

[Vectorian]

LOL! - If I don't tell anyone else that St. Patrick was British, will you promise not to tell anyone St George was a turk! ;-)

[Vectorian]

Murphys? You mean Heineken in a green can? There used to be lots of Murphys pubs in Ireland, but Guinness won the war and the name of Murphys was bought by the Dutch. You don't see it much in Ireland now,it's just an Irish stout brand largely for export.

A good Irishman drinking light beer - what planet are you from? :D

A friend of mine from Limerick used to run an Irish pub in florida and regularly had american customers bringing in their wives who eyed up the black stuff suspiciously and then ordered 'whatever you have that is most like american beer.' He would then serve them a glass of very cold water without cracking a smile. . . . . ;-)

[Vectorian]

Old St Paddy was a smart cookie though - not only did he remove all the living snakes from Ireland, he also removed all the fossilised snake bones since time began, just to confuse the archaeologists. . . . ;-)

[quark]

"Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose."

[kellynla]

"Unlikely and debatable?" to only you maybe
"even if St Patrick was born in Kilpatrick, which many doubt." many doubt?

I never said St. Patrick was Scottish.

Kilpatrick is in Scotland
It sure as hell isn't in England! LMAO

gezzzzz what is it with you people on FR;
why can't you just say "I stand corrected" and move on...

[Mr. Silverback]

By the way Chuck, St. Patrick was a Catholic Priest.

And...your point is?

[Mr. Silverback]

Where'd corned beef come into the mix?

[sully777]

"The Irish of the fifth century were a pagan, violent, and barbaric people. Human sacrifice was commonplace..."

---

Bull dinkus!!!

This statement is not rooted in truth whatsoever and is typical of Greco-Roman propoganda that was popularized by the murderous destruction of all things Celtic by bloody Julius Caesar. The anti-druid/anti-celtic PR found its roots in a time when Rome and Greece got their arses kicked by Celtic tribes that held their city states in check. Greco-Roman historians were known to stretch the truth regarding the Celts, particularly the druid priests to push their agenda. Sort of like how the Arabs paint Jews as blood thirsty subhumans.

Chuck Colson's whimsical history makes it sound like the Irish were blood thirsty subhumans before Patricius showed up. Nothing can be further from the truth. You all can check Irish history, both written and oral, to find that Ireland had a large population of christians--just the wrong kind of christians for Catholic taste--before the appearance of Patricius.

The truth is Ireland wasn't organized under the Roman form of church government. Ireland wasn't guided by specific dogma from a Pope, or an ecclesiastical council. In fact, many Irish christians were converts of earlier missionaries from Christ's era as well as christian traders. The Irish christians practiced the older form of Judaic-christianity found among the practioners in Jerusalem, Nazareth, and early Antioch, with some strong Irish influences thrown in. Apparently the rulings of the Councils of Nicea and Laodocea never reached the Irish ear or heart before AD432.

The rest of the population in Ireland were civilized, highly organized clans that tolerated ideas so long as it did not destroy the clans. The druids were keepers of oral history, sacred traditions, and helped moderate judicial proceedings within the clans.

Ireland was also a very wealthy island. Ancient texts talk about the abundance of gold that used to be in Ireland. And of course, the land was rich and well-watered for agriculture.

When Rome departed from Britain, it was Irish kings and adventurers that began to colonize Scotland (Scotti is an Irish name), Wales, and southwestern Britain in the 5th century. The Irish had sizeable colonies in the Welsh penisula. This is the time when Patricius, A ROMAN Brit, was enslaved and brought to Ireland.

Patricius escaped enslavement. He fled to Roman territory and later converted to Catholicism and in time became a bishop.

Around AD431, the Pope in Rome thought it was high time to convert Ireland to the catholic form of christianity. He sent Bishop Palladius as first missionary but he died around AD432. So he sent the former slave of a minor Irish chief, our legendary hero Patricius.

Upon his return to Ireland, the ROMAN Brit, Patricius, first met with a minor chief-king named Leohaire (Leary), a son of Naill of the Nine Hostages (the northern O'Neill clan). It should be noted that Leary never converted. However, Leary's son was made bishop in time.

Patricius made his way up and down Ulster, the northeastern portions of Ireland. He never covered all of Ireland. He did missionary work from AD432 to AD461 and was the key to later Roman domination of the christian churches on the island. Bishop Patricius, the ROMAN British slave, was none other than Patrick.

Unlike the tall tale Rome likes to tell about Patrick, Roman Catholicism did not take hold in Ireland until the 6th century--nearly 100 years after Patrick's death. And even then, the druid control was never fully wrested from the Irish mind. Later, the bloodthirsty subhuman Irish played a vital role in salvaging and protecting European intellectual property and learning. In point of fact, Ireland was saving the European braintrust while the English were living in mud and grass huts learning Danish and French from their overlords!

I have read many sources on this topic: One book that is more interested in historic fact than mythical fancies is "A History Of Ireland" by Peter and Fiona Somerset Fry. One thing is for sure, Patrick did not convert bloodthirsty subhumans into good little catholics. If you believe that fable, I have a stone you can kiss in the Emerald Isle.

For more information on Cahill and the Frys see: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?WRD=A+history+of+Ireland&z=y&cds2Pid=9481

[PJ-Comix]

Originally it was bacon and cabbage but that was pretty lame so they just went to a Jewish Deli and replaced the bacon with corned beef and that's pretty much the story. Corned beef isn't a native Irish dish.

Actually I am curious about the British Isles in general. Why is their food so unbelievably horrible? I mean it isn't that tough to cook up some food with even a modest amount of taste but they go out of their way to make HORRIBLE food. Why?

[Dave Elias]

St Patrick was born in Bannaven(m) Tabernae. Nobody really knows where that was born, but the more likely ones are in Wales or my particular favourite since I used to live near it, Bannaventa in Northamptonshire which is not only on the main North-South road, but its name is simply a contraction of the stated birthplace (in the same way Lincoln is a contraction of Lindum Colonia). Scotland seems unlikely because being north of the wall would mean it would be at best an outpost, not a place where "Thousands" of people might be captured.

[Dave Elias]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bannaventa

[A.A. Cunningham]

The point being Colson never passes up the opportunity to slight Catholics.

[NZerFromHK]

It is not quite so. Roman Britain were stocked by Britons, who were later forced to flee to Ireland by the successive waves of invading Anglo-Saxons, Nordic Vikings, and Normans. Racially today's white English people are a mix of Anglo-Saxons and Nordic people.

(BTW, don't say that I didn't study history. I grew up as one of your formerly great colonial empire's last colonies just before the sun finally set LOL)