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BBC: US spy agency 'monitoring calls' ~ collecting data on the phone calls .... of Americans,
BBC ^ | Thursday, 11 May 2006, 19:55 GMT 20:55 UK | staff

Posted on 05/11/2006 1:08:24 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

US spy agency 'monitoring calls'

Man speaking on a cell phone

Land lines and mobiles are both reportedly being logged

A United States intelligence agency has been collecting data on the phone calls of tens of millions of Americans, a report in USA Today has alleged.

The country's three biggest phone companies have been handing over call records to the National Security Agency (NSA) since 2001, the newspaper says.

President Bush refused to confirm or deny the existence of the programme.

He said he had authorised intelligence gathering in the wake of 9/11, adding that the activities were "lawful".

"Our intelligence activities strictly target al-Qaeda and their known affiliates," he said in a brief White House statement after the newspaper report appeared.

"The privacy of ordinary Americans is fiercely protected," he said, adding: "We are not mining or trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans."

The USA Today report does not claim the government listened in on phone calls.

But it cites an unnamed source as saying the NSA has used data on telephone calls to build "the largest database ever assembled in the world".

Senate response

US senators reacted quickly to the allegation, saying they would order the phone companies to testify about it.

Senator Patrick Leahy, the senior Democrat on the Senate judiciary committee, reacted with anger to the report, brandishing the newspaper in committee meeting.

I think this is going to present a growing impediment to the confirmation [of Michael Hayden to head the CIA]

Sen Dianne Feinstein

"We need to know what our government is doing to spy upon Americans," he said.

But Republican senators suggested Mr Leahy was over-reacting.

They pointed out that the story did not allege wiretapping, only the creation of a database in order to analyse calling patterns.

Experts disagree about whether the government has the authority to demand the data it is allegedly compiling.

"I'm quite confident that if it's true it's illegal," Prof Michael Greenberger of the University of Maryland school of law told the BBC.

The communications act of 1934 bars companies from releasing information about callers, he said.

But the three phone companies in question - AT&T, Verizon, and Bell South, all told USA Today they had not broken any laws.

Together the firms serve more than 200 million customers. A fourth company, Qwest, reportedly declined to participate in the programme.

A civil liberties group, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, filed suit against AT&T last month after a former AT&T employee indicated the company was engaging in the kind of data-mining the USA Today report described.

Sensitive time

The Bush administration has asserted that the president has the authority to monitor communications in order to disrupt terrorist activity.

General Michael Hayden with President George W Bush
The report could derail Mr Bush's choice to head the CIA

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has testified before the Senate in defence of a programme of wiretapping without warrant ordered by the president.

The USA Today report comes at a potentially sensitive moment for the administration.

Gen Michael Hayden, the man who headed the NSA when the data-mining operation was allegedly launched, was nominated this week to head the CIA.

He is due to face confirmation hearings from the Senate soon.

Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein warned the latest allegations would "present a growing impediment to the confirmation".

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said the president was standing by his choice: "We're full steam ahead on the confirmation."




TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: nsa; wiretaps
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To: ndt
You mean locking up 100K+ people who have nothing to do with the battle?

I didn't say that, and in other contexts I have condemned Roosevelt for doing that.

That isn't my purpose here. My intent is to point out the difference between a country that is seriously intent upon waging and winning a war, versus a country that hasn't yet convinced itself that it is at war.

There is a huge difference between rounding up a whole population who had nothing to do with the war, and taking note of those people who are in communication with cell phones captured in Afghanistan or Iraq. If we lack the resolve and the seriousness of purpose to go after people who are in communication with our declared enemies, then we have no chance.

21 posted on 05/11/2006 2:22:59 PM PDT by marron
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

This is a tough one, for sure.

What the NSA is doing is called link analysis. It is an incredibly cool tool for catching bad guys. You can start with a group of suspects and analyze who they are calling (1st degree), then analyze who those guys calling (2nd degree), and then who they are calling (3rd degree), etc. This data is combined with lost of data from other public and private sources (Interpol, NCIC, news wire services, etc., etc.) and run through software that looks for links between the suspects. With enough data, and some pretty sophisticated analysis, you can get a detailed schematic of the structure of an entire organization. I first encountered it maybe 10 years ago when it was being used to combat drug cartels but it was developed earlier than that by the NSA for intelligence work. I’m sure it is way more sophisticated now that it was back then. Back when I was familiar with this stuff the government had to go through a laborious process to subpoena phone records and I assume that, after 911, the rational was there to have all of the records possible to be able to move react in a timely manner to a terrorist threat.

Like I say, it is a great tool for catching bad guys, but I also agree that, in the wrong hands, it could be used for all sorts of nefarious purposes (blackmail comes to mind). This is a very difficult area, if the technology is there to catch bad guys, can the government put the public at risk by refusing to use it? Is the long term risk of the government having this capability a greater risk?

What is undeniable is that some a**h*** has taken it upon himself (herself?) to destroy a program that can is very helpful in the war on terrorism and should be tried for treason.


22 posted on 05/11/2006 2:23:11 PM PDT by marko525 (Never tear down a fence until you know why it was put up in the first place.)
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To: marko525
What is undeniable is that some a**h*** has taken it upon himself (herself?) to destroy a program that can is very helpful in the war on terrorism and should be tried for treason.

This I disagree with, you can't know the motives of the people who disclosed this. They may have witnesed first-hand the program being used for all sorts of nefarious purposes. And to think that the group who pulled off the attacks on America five years ago would be so unfamiliar with their adversay as to not have already modified their telephone usage patterns so as to sheild their behavior from data mining operations like this is inconsistent with the idea that they were clever enough to pull off the attacks in the first place.

This seems like a fishing expedition, and someone at the NSA, who may have been there long enough to know better, spoke up. If this is a good idea, let the White House be honest about it.
23 posted on 05/11/2006 2:41:06 PM PDT by Karl Rand
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Wonder if the cells of the Minutemen get monitored, and the info handed over to Vicente.


24 posted on 05/11/2006 2:42:13 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Don't they do something similar in UK?


25 posted on 05/11/2006 2:42:59 PM PDT by sono ("If Congressional brains were cargo, there'd be nothing to unload." - Rush Limbaugh)
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To: virginiaspook
This sort of surveillance has been going on for years.

The surveillance has gone on for years, but the database is new.

Who cares?

I care. If the database only contains information on al-Qaeda members, no problem. If it contains information on everybody, that will be a problem.

26 posted on 05/11/2006 3:24:26 PM PDT by HAL9000 (Get a Mac - The Ultimate FReeping Machine)
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To: virginiaspook
This sort of surveillance has been going on for years.

The surveillance has gone on for years, but the database is new.

Who cares?

I care. If the database only contains information on al-Qaeda members, no problem. If it contains information on everybody, that will be a problem.

27 posted on 05/11/2006 3:24:26 PM PDT by HAL9000 (Get a Mac - The Ultimate FReeping Machine)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

And if the phone companies handed over the info voluntarily, end of discussion.


28 posted on 05/11/2006 3:26:57 PM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
The communications act of 1934 bars companies from releasing information about callers, he said.

Was it legal to release information about callers before 1934?

29 posted on 05/11/2006 3:35:14 PM PDT by syriacus (WHERE has Geo. Clooney been for ALL the years that Franklin Graham has been helping the Sudanese?)
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To: HAL9000
If it's wrong to keep such databases, shouldn't phone companies be obligated to be destroy their own records about calls (after they bill their customers)?
30 posted on 05/11/2006 3:38:10 PM PDT by syriacus (WHERE has Geo. Clooney been for ALL the years that Franklin Graham has been helping the Sudanese?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
The latest idiot media drive-by.

Quick! Let's get in a lather over protecting America.

31 posted on 05/11/2006 4:34:57 PM PDT by Reactionary (The Barking of the Native Moonbat is the Sound of Moral Nitwittery)
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To: virginiaspook
This stuff has been going on for years and years.

Heck that's what I do for a living since the Reagan days. Your call information does not belong to you.

32 posted on 05/11/2006 4:38:22 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Proud soldier in the American Army of Occupation..)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

England should consider the same sort of data mining.

There are Islamonazi supremacists in London who openly celebrate the 9-11 attacks and call for the murder of Westerners.

Might be good to map out who they are associating with.


33 posted on 05/11/2006 5:05:23 PM PDT by weegee (Slowly but surely and deliberately, converativism is being made a thoughtcrime.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Every now and then I accidentally overhear one side of bits of my almost twelve-year-old daughter's telephone conversations.

If any poor soul at the NSA is being forced to listen to hours and hours of stuff like that, then they deserve an increase in pay.

34 posted on 05/11/2006 5:54:40 PM PDT by George Smiley (This tagline deliberately targeted journalists.)
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To: virginiaspook

What other keywords can you say besides "go TS" and "are you secure?" that will trigger the keyword recognizers at the NSA?


35 posted on 05/11/2006 6:44:46 PM PDT by freddymuldoon
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To: weegee

And how about the La Raza brown supremacists?


36 posted on 05/11/2006 6:45:40 PM PDT by freddymuldoon
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To: HAL9000
I care.

If the database only contains information on al-Qaeda members, no problem.

If it contains information on everybody, that will be a problem.

Hah.

If it contains information on everybody, then you should buy as much Seagate stock as possible, as it'll inevitably increase in value due to the spike in the demand for disk storage.

37 posted on 05/11/2006 6:53:04 PM PDT by George Smiley (This tagline deliberately targeted journalists.)
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To: redgolum
LOL! Yep. Echelon has been around for almost ten years now. Total informational awareness, or Orwell's dark nightmare come true.

But,it might help keep us safe. Maybe.


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
--Benjamin Franklin
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, -- go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!"
--Samuel Adams
Besides, we do have that "inalienable right to privacy" -- you know, that "penumbra" thing. So far, though, it only seems to apply in the abortion context. Any attempt to invoke a "right to privacy" in any other context will evoke howls of scorn and condemnation, with the occasional taunt suggesting that "you must have something to hide" if you even want to enjoy any pretext of privacy.
38 posted on 05/11/2006 7:37:27 PM PDT by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: syriacus; HAL9000

If it's wrong to keep such databases, shouldn't phone companies be obligated to be destroy their own records about calls (after they bill their customers)?

So, basically, you're saying that you're OK with the government collecting every bit of private information that you have chosen to share with private entities that you have chosen to do business with and/or communicate with?

And yes, the telcos (and every other company) should destroy private data they have collected after there is no valid need for that information (i.e., dialing information retained for billing purposes, and billing information retained for accounting requirements) -- and, it should not be provided to any third party in lieu of subpoena or warrant.

39 posted on 05/11/2006 7:46:14 PM PDT by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: marko525; Karl Rand

What the NSA is doing is called link analysis. It is an incredibly cool tool for catching bad guys. You can start with a group of suspects and analyze who they are calling (1st degree), then analyze who those guys calling (2nd degree), and then who they are calling (3rd degree), etc. This data is combined with lost of data from other public and private sources (Interpol, NCIC, news wire services, etc., etc.) and run through software that looks for links between the suspects. With enough data, and some pretty sophisticated analysis, you can get a detailed schematic of the structure of an entire organization.
Google PROMIS INSLAW and PROMIS Casolaro.

But first, put on a pot of coffee, take your phone off the hook (or flip on the answering machine), put the "do not disturb" sign on your door... and remove any throwable objects from within arm's reach.

40 posted on 05/11/2006 7:55:01 PM PDT by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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