Massive Earthquake Destroyed Ancient City Of Anamurium, Say Scientists

Turkish Daily News ^ | 7-8-2006

[Eastbound]

Okay, hold on for this one:

It was Bush's FAULT, of course.

[BenLurkin]

It's worse here in California actually.

The ancients didn't know anything really about where the faults are, what they are and how they behave.

Modern Californians know and understand the danger very well but still rebuild.

[blam]

"IIRC, Volkswanderung [German term] = [great] wandering of the peoples, supposedly started with the Huns [hsiung-nu in Chinese sources] in about early 3rd century AD, proceeded as an avalanche of displaced tribes from Eastern Central Asia westward, got to Europe in the 5th century, got deflected and dissipated, but ultimately resulted in the collapse of Western Roman empire and the establishment of a bunch of tribal kingdoms and duchies, aka Dark Ages."

Ah! I know these people. They are the Xiongnu and IMO are descended from these folks:

The Curse Of The Red-Headed Mummy

They were the fiercest fighters in the Tarim Basin and the reason the Chinese built the Great Wall.

You are probably referring to the Yuezhi who fought and lost to the Xiongnu part of the Yuezhi tribe (The Greater Yuezhi) allied itself with the Xiongnu and continued to attack the Hans. The other part of the Yuezhi (The Lesser Yuezhi) migrated out of the region and may be the people to whom you refer. See here:

Yuezhi Migration And Sogdia

Now I have a little shocker for you. On page 281 of Professor Victor Mair's excellent book The Tarim Mummies he writes:

"...To give an example of where such observations can lead consider for example the two examples by A.K Narain and W.B.Hennings."

"As we have just mentioned, the people who emerge as the Tocharians in Western sources are often equated with a branch of the Yuezhi of Chinese sources who were driven from their Gansu borderlands by the Xiongnu, then further west by the Wusun, arriving at the Oxus,and going on to conquer Bactria and establish the Kushan empire, Narain argues that once one accepts the equation Tocharian = Yuezhi, then one is forced to follow both the Chinese historical sources (which for him would propel the Yuezhi back to at least the 7th century BC) and the geographical reference of their first cited historical location (Gansu) to the conclusion that they have lived there 'from times immemorial'. Narin infers that they had been there at least since the Qijia Culture c. 2000BC and probably even earlier in the Yangshao culture of the neolithic. This would render the Tocharians as virtually native to Gansu (and earlier than the putative spread of the neolithic to Xinjiang) and Narin goes so far as to argue that the Indo-Europeans themselves originally dispensed from this area westwards."

The oldest paper ever found was found in the Tarim Basin and it had the Indo-European langauage Tocharian A written on it.

[GSlob]

Van-Sevan-Urmia, then counterclockwise, if you are to look for Indo-Europeans. Hsiung-nu were Mongoloids.

[blam]

"Hsiung-nu were Mongoloids."

Nah.

[Fred Nerks]

Islam or an Earthquake?

Anemurium

About 6 km southwest of Anamur, on the southernmost tip of Asia Minor, slumber the ruins of the ancient settlement of Anemurium, meaning "windy cape" (anemos means wind in Greek). The city was founded by the Phoenicians in the 12th or 13th century BC and was later occupied by the Assyrians and Hittites. Anemurium flourished during the Roman period and became a great trading centre. The city was at its peak during the 3rd century AD and most remains date from that period. In the 7th century AD Arab corsairs raided and pillaged the coast and Anamurium was abandoned and left alone as a Byzantine ghost town.

http://www.anatolia.luwo.be/index.htm?Anamur2.htm&1

Lots of thumbnails on the website.

[Dr.Deth]

Hsiung-nu were Mongoloids.

[GSlob]

"Nah" - Yep: You can read Sima Qian on them. In 1st-2nd century BC they were Mongoloid; occasionally a disaffected senior hsiung-nu noble would defect to China, and would immediately be incorporated into Chinese hierarchy as marquis [dou] and otherwise fit almost seamlessly.

[blam]

Okay. Maybe a mixed race group.

Did the Xiongnu become the Huns?

The Xiongnu have often been identified with the Huns, who populated the frontiers of Europe, starting with the writings of the French historian de Guignes in the eighteenth century. This theory remains at the level of speculation, although it is accepted by a large number of scholars including Chinese ones. DNA testing of Hun remains has not proven conclusive in determining the origin of the Huns. The name Xiongnu sounds similar to the name "Hun". (For example, the country Hungary is translated in Chinese as "Xiongyali".) A variation to Xiongnu is Hsiung-nu, which looks very similar (in English) to the "Huns".

It is interesting to note that a different reading of the word ýÖ (Xiong) can be found in those Chinese dialects that preserve ancient pronunciations, such as Cantonese, i.e., /hʊ©¯/. It could lend credence to the theory that the Huns were in fact descendants of the Western Xiongnu who migrated westward, or that the Huns were using a name borrowed from the Western Xiongnu, or that these Xiongnu made up part of the Hun confederation. In the 1998 Walt Disney animated film Mulan, the invaders of China in the original English version of the film were called the Huns, while in the Cantonese and Mandarin versions of the film, they were referred to as the Xiongnu.

The legendary folk-tales of Hmong from Vietnam

According to the theory of Hmong communities in Vietnam, the ancient Xiongnu were actually a group of Hmong being, at that particular time, ruled by sage of that clan and therefore called themselves so. There are some folk-tales facts that support so. The Hmong people once inhabited the area near Manchuria according to folk-tales about 5,000 years ago. It could have been that some became or joined with the Xiongnu. Ultimately, though, after their defeat of semi-mythological battle at the Zhuolu Plains and the death of their leader Chi You (who said to be a beast) they fled southward through China and Vietnam, although some of them stayed in about the times of Yellow Emperor. It could have been these that regrouped and became the Xiongnu.

[blam]

Ancient European Remains Discovered in Qinghai (China)

[GSlob]

Huns became mixed when they got to Europe [as a hodge-podge of all the tribes they swept before and with them]. The Hsiung-nu tribal group Sima Qian was describing was not particularly mixed - a Chinese historian would surely make a prominent note of that.

[blam]

I've read that there are many poems in Chinese lamenting the green eyes of the Han emperors. Also, that the Han emperors had red-headed people as their 'magic' makers.

[Fred Nerks]

One of the most famous Tocharian mummies found, the so-called "Beauty of Loulan"; and right, her face, as reconstructed by an artist.

She reminds me of the Afghani girl with the haunting eyes featured on the Time Magazine cover.

[gleeaikin]

There are several possibilities for the start of the migrations. I can't find my reference book right now, but I think there was a significant volcanic event around 180 AD. In the Third Century AD, the volcano Ilopongo in Central American had a very major eruption. It seriously disrupted the Mayan civilization. I wish I could get a more accurate date on that volcano.

Regarding the wandering tribes, I have a wonderful reference from around 1980, Hammond Historical Atlas of the World. Page H-7 shows the wanderings of the tribes which I will try to describe. Some time after 150 AD the Goths migrate from the Baltic Sea area SE to the Crimea. 373 the Huns move West into the Crimea.

350 Goths move down into Bulgaria. 380-454 East Goths move West into Hungary. 376-378 West Goths move South as far as Constantinople (Istanbul), and by 398 Alaric is sweeping down into Greece as far as Sparta, in 399 he is headed north, 400 moving into costal Yugoslavia, and by 402 across northern Italy, then 408-410 down to visit the lucky Romans, and south to the toe of Italy's boot where he dies in 410. Then the West Goths under Athaulf head up Italy's west coast, 412 and over toward France, where by 413 they have passed Marseilles, and headed across the eastern Pyrenees, 414 into Spain. From 417 to 419 they go all the way to Gibralter and then back to Barcelona.

Around 404 to 406 the Alans, Suevi, and Vandals in the Poland/German area start to move East and South. One group goes as far as Florence, Italy in 405. The Vandals head for France and wander around, 407-409, before crossing the central Pyrenees. They spend some time in northern and western Spain and head south through Portugal to Gibralter, 420. In 427 Genseric crosses into North Africa and heads East, 427-432. When they hit Carthage they radiate out into the Mediterranean to Sicily and southern Italy, 440; Rome, 455; Corsica, 456; Sardinia; the Balearic Islands; and Cartagena, Spain, 460.

Some time during the Fifth Century the Angles, Saxons and Jutes are shown moving into England.

The Huns start moving from the Ukraine to Hungary/Romania in 433, and from 440 to 446 Atilla moves down into Greece. In 450 he moves from his H/R base west in 451, and in 452 he headed west, southwest from H/R into northern Italy. The map does not show it but I seem to recall he made it all the way to Rome. These guys really got around.

Regarding the 534-542 problem we have the account of SJB Barnish who in 1992 wrote "Variae of Magnus Aurelius Cassiodorus." Cassiodorus comments, "How strange it is, I ask you, to see the principal star [the sun], and not its usual brightness; to gaze on the moon...shorn of its natural splendour? All of us are still observing...a blue-coloured sun...we marvel at bodies that cast no midday shadow...and this has not happened in the momentary loss of an eclipse, but has been going on equally through almost the entire year...whence can we hope for mild weather, when the months that once ripened the crops have been sick under the northern blasts? For what will give fertility, if the soil does not grow warm in summer?"

The comment about the blue sun is interesting. The same phenomenon was noted in Europe in 1773, when Iceland had the enormous Laki Fissure volcanic event, with great outpourings of fluorine gas, killing 90% of their cattle, and 10,000 people by starvation. Climatic and crop disturbances in Europe/France probably contributed to the French Revolution. "Your majesty, the people have no bread." "Then let them eat cake."

[Berosus]

She reminds me of the Afghani girl with the haunting eyes featured on the Time Magazine cover.

I think you meant National Geographic, but I see your point. As a matter of fact, the Tocharians settled in Afghanistan before they founded the Kushan Empire. That is where Zhang Qian, a Chinese ambassador, found them in 128 B.C., after the Xiongnu had driven them out of Gansu.

When Richard Francis Burton, the 19th-century explorer, sneaked into Mecca, he explained his European features by telling any Moslem who asked that he was from Afghanistan. That Afghan girl may very well have Tocharian ancestors in her family tree.

[baltoga]

Throw in global warming and we'll have all our bases covered.

[blam]

"One of the most famous Tocharian mummies found, the so-called "Beauty of Loulan"; and right, her face, as reconstructed by an artist."

Yup. She is covered thoroughly in the excellent book by Elizabeth Barber, The Mummies Of Urumchi.

Her image has been adopted by the Uighars(sp) who call her 'The Mother Of Our Country.' Her image has begun appearing on currency and other official documents. The Chinese don't like it at all.

[blam]

People generally don't pull up stakes and start migrating enmasse unless something life threatning is occuring.

Mike Baillie, in his book, Exodus To Arthur, shows a period of continued cooling world wide with a sharp drop in temperature drop in the 539-540AD time frame. Colder temperatures is probably what was driving the migrations you listed.

[blam]

"I think you meant National Geographic, but I see your point. As a matter of fact, the Tocharians settled in Afghanistan before they founded the Kushan Empire. That is where Zhang Qian, a Chinese ambassador, found them in 128 B.C., after the Xiongnu had driven them out of Gansu."

IMO, one of the biggest problems people have in understanding Caucasian migrations is the fact that they start with the idea that Caucasians were always in Europe. They weren't, they migrated there from points way east maybe as far as Japan or even further east.

It looks like a group migrated to Europe before 25,000 years ago and then were seperated and isolated there (Iberia) during the Last Glacial Maximum(LGM, the coldest period of the whole Ice Age, 18-23,000 years ago) and everyone in between died due to the cold. Those isolated folks in Iberia are probably the Basque of today. It was during the LGM that the European Neanderthals died out or were assimilated with that isolated group of Caucasians in Iberia.

Professor Stephen Oppenheimer's DNA studies indicate that about 50% of today's Europeans can trace their DNA to one man from the Indus Valley who made their way to Europe through the Middle East. The other 50% can trace their DNA to a son of the same man who made their way to Europe through Russia a thousand years later.

The original homeland of Europeans and Caucasians is somewhere even farther east...maybe even SE Asia where it was nice and warm during the last Ice Age.

[Fred Nerks]

"I think you meant National Geographic..."

you are correct.

She has been photographed only twice in her life, once in an Afghan refugee camp as an orphaned girl with a haunting stare, and now, 18 years later, as a woman and mother who has survived a lifetime of bloody conflict. Sharbat Gula was aged about 12 when an American photographer took her portrait in December 1984, an image that was to become a 20th-century icon after it made the June 1985 cover of National Geographic magazine.

http://www.layneredmond.com/sharbat1.htm