Rome's Palatine Hill shows new treasures

AP via Yahoo! ^ | 1-23-07 | ARIEL DAVID

[Erasmus]

I'm from Milwaukee and I oughta know
It's Pfalzgraf, Pfalzgraf, wherever you go
Pfalzgraf's the name you will al-l-ways hear
Pfalzgraf's Milwaukee's fi-i-nest beer.

[ZULU]

I wish Americans would start thinking and behaving more like Ancient ROmans than like Hollywood liberals.

[NYer]

This undated photo released by Archeological Superintendent's office in Rome shows archeologists at work on the Palatine Hill, the birth place and power center of ancient Rome. Conservation work on Rome's Palatine Hill has yielded a bounty of new discoveries, including an underground grotto possibly revered as the place where a wolf nursed the city's legendary founders, archaeologists said Tuesday, Jan. 23, 2007. (AP Photo/ Superintendent's office, ho)

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Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list

[NYer]

Ping!

[livius]

Thanks for that linguistic tidbit!

[trisham]

Interesting.

[rogator]

"I'm from Milwaukee and I oughta know
It's Pfalzgraf, Pfalzgraf, wherever you go
Pfalzgraf's the name you will al-l-ways hear
Pfalzgraf's Milwaukee's fi-i-nest beer."

Pfalzgraf beer is the right beer anywhere.
Pfalzgraf beer is brewed with special care.
The choicest product of the brewers art.

[SunkenCiv]

Uh, the ancient Romans *did* act like Hollywood liberals.

[ZULU]

Uh, no they didn't.

They have had similar vices, but they had military and patriotic virtues the Hollywood liberal lack.

Further, they originally were very similar to early Americans in their views of military service, patriotism and pride of country as well as rigid morality.

Only later, LIKE US, did they allow success to warp their value system.

[SunkenCiv]

The similar vices (such as men sodomizing boys, favoring oligarchy masquerading as democracy, etc) is what I was talking about. Military and patriotic virtues may have been here and there, as they were in early America, but mostly Rome was an expanding, colonizing, imperial power from the time its monarchy was overthrown.

[ZULU]

"The similar vices (such as men sodomizing boys, favoring oligarchy masquerading as democracy, etc) is what I was talking about. "

Interesting statement - it almost applies to current day America it would seem (Foley, Franks, special interest groups and their impact on our republic).

"Military and patriotic virtues may have been here and there, as they were in early America, but mostly Rome was an expanding, colonizing, imperial power from the time its monarchy was overthrown."

To a degree, but the early and middle Republic was far more "moral" than Imperial Rome, or even modern day America in many respects. As late as the Augustan period, Augustus was concerned with public "morality" and although their version of it differed from ours, in some respects his efforts were aimed at problems similar to those we are facing - such as low national birthrates, decline of family values, widespread immoral behavior.

And although Rome was an expanding power, "colonization" consisted in large degree in making subject populations into Romans than exploiting them as a subject race.

I think the similarities between the situation in Ancient Rome and in America are striking in many respects. They failed to address their problems, and collapsed as a consequence. Our failure to address very similar problems may result in a like result today.

[ZULU]

I like your home page. I will visit it often.

[dighton]

Blatz you für planting dot Earwurm.

;-)

[Veto!]

I absolutely believe the legend of the wolf.

I spent a month in Italy, mostly Rome a few years ago visiting friends, a doctor and architect. The architect was all in favor of bulldozing all of Rome's ancient monuments and sites and replacing them with new roads and buildings.......he's tired of living in a museum and getting stuck in traffice that winds hither and thither at rush hour around the ruins rather than straight thru.

Such poetic sentiments could only be expressed by one whose ancestors were suckled by a wolf.

[SunkenCiv]

Augustus was concerned with public "morality"...

He also knocked up Livia when she was still married to her first husband, their child being Drusus.

...in some respects his efforts were aimed at problems similar to those we are facing - such as low national birthrates, decline of family values, widespread immoral behavior.

He tried to address the low rate of marriage among eligible Roman men through new laws. Roman citizenship had been expanded by Julius Caesar, some said diluted, and eventually he was murdered by a Senatorial conspiracy. Prior to and during that time, it had been Senators who had been seizing lands under various artifices, from the very people who had signed up for the armed forces.

After he'd finally achieved victory over Antony and others, Augustus cut the Roman army by about half (56 to 28, plus the Praetorian Guard), and made up the difference by expansion of the auxiliary legions. This was partly to reduce the number of idle troops and thereby reduce the possibility of renewed civil war, but the obvious problem was that there were too few interested in serving.

although Rome was an expanding power, "colonization" consisted in large degree in making subject populations into Romans than exploiting them as a subject race.

The Romans used everyone they conquered, but as with other slavery-based societies, the number on top continued to shrink and the subject peoples increased under the protection of the Roman army. Some of the best emperors were from the provinces, and over time the number of regular legions filled with non-Romans increased. Caesar slaughtered a good chunk of Gaul, which merely made it a tempting place for people east of the Rhine to expand. That remained a problem for Rome, in part due to the declining temperatures during the Roman Cooling pushing people out of Central Asia.

I think the similarities between the situation in Ancient Rome and in America are striking in many respects. They failed to address their problems, and collapsed as a consequence. Our failure to address very similar problems may result in a like result today.

The Romans had a system of measures, a (sort of) unified standard currency, a road system, pretty safe maritime travel and commerce, and a top-notch military. They didn't have a postal system per se, although there were various systems to courier official messages. As was pointed out sometime by someone somewhere :'), the President can communicate across the country faster than Caesar could communicate across his palace. The Romans didn't have what we would call a public school system, nor did they have compulsory public education.

Roman government was very much more like modern socialist states than it was like our republic. The economic peak of the empire was during the reign of Trajan, but he only managed to achieve that through the booty taken by his conquest of Dacia. His boy-butt-lovin' successor (adopted) Hadrian wanted to abandon Dacia, was talked out of it, but withdrew from southern Scotland, and left Trajan's province of Mesopotamia after just a couple of years of Roman occupation. Diocletian tried to impose a regularized system of succession, but it failed. Aurelian was a short-lived bright spot, but was murdered by one of his corrupt aides.

But anyway...

Thanks for your kind remarks about my profile page. My links page is far too large, and I plan to carve it down sooner or later. I also plan to file my income tax return by the end of January, for the first time ever. ;')

[SunkenCiv]

Sounds like the architect is (lu)pining for somethin' he's not gonna get.

[Dysart]

he's tired of living in a museum and getting stuck in traffice that winds hither and thither at rush hour around the ruins rather than straight thru.

Such poetic sentiments could only be expressed by one whose ancestors were suckled by a wolf.

Howl can one immersed in this den of antiquity truly appreciate it, though? Alpha bet he'll miss this treasure when it's gone.

[Erasmus]

Caesar slaughtered a good chunk of Gaul, which merely made it a tempting place for people east of the Rhine to expand.

And thus, eventually, the Rhineland Palatinate.

< }B^)