I don't really see much of a differenec myself.
Posted on 02/22/2007 5:37:12 AM PST by holymoly
THERE IS A bit of a rift going on in the outdoor sporting world between hunters and gun enthusiasts, which sometimes are one in the same.
The raucousness started when longtime outdoors writer Jim Zumbo of Outdoor Life magazine posted a story online that said assault rifles -- he also called them terrorist rifles -- had no place in the hunting community, even suggesting that game departments ban them from the prairies and woods.
According to The Shooting Wire web site, he tried to apologize, attributing his remarks to being tired following a long day of hunting coyotes in extreme weather conditions.
Outdoor Life announced it was discontinuing the "Hunting With Zumbo" blog "for the time being" due to the "controversy surrounding Jim Zumbo's latest postings."
Their notice went on to remind readers "Outdoor Life has always been, and will always be, a steadfast supporter of our Second Amendment rights which do not make distinctions based on the looks of the firearms we choose to own, shoot and take hunting."
Assault rifle enthusiasts were quick to call for boycotts of products associated with Zumbo, according to The Shooting Wire, which included Remington. Zumbo, a National Rifle Association member for 40 years, quickly found his sponsors bailing.
"There was little, if anything, that would assuage an angry horde of electronically mobilized AR (Assault Rifle) fans. They considered Zumbo's remarks as being tantamount to a sellout, with Zumbo offering up "black rifles" as a sacrificial lamb for anti-gun forces," said the wire service.
The rancor continued with The Shooting Wire founder Jim Shepherd, saying, "We don't owe him our loyalty, our support, or our forgiveness, but we owe him for motivating us to tell the industry they'd better start paying attention to the silent majority.
"Even if you call us 'shooters' or 'paper punchers' or 'plinkers' or whatever, there are many more of us than there are hunters. And we're neither terrorists nor fools."
This is a rift that could continue to grow, and maybe this split was a long time coming. As one bumper-sticker type sign that used to hang in The Island in Libertyville said, "The Second Amendment ain't about duck hunting."
But hunters and shooters regularly mix at shooting clubs like the one in Bristol, Wis., and you have to wonder if animosity between the groups could grow. Shepherd says Zumbo's opinion is common in hard core hunter circles.
I remember one time hunting a piece of land near Richmond and some young guys from Chicago came out as my brothers and I were leaving. One of them had an unusual gun for hunting, a sawed off shotgun. We thought that was stupid, but the Second Amendment doesn't make any distinctions, right?
The AR rifles are accurate weapons and could easily be used for hunting big game like deer, but I'm sure gun manufacturers would suggest a better weapon.
So maybe Zumbo was a dumbo for even going there in a hunting article. These rifles are used in competitions or bought for home security, but is supporting a ban on them the first slide on a slippery slope of having guns outlawed all together? The Assault Weapons Ban was re-introduced in congress this month.
So, now I've written myself into a corner, of sorts. I know someone who shot an automatic (illegal) AK-47 who said it was really cool. He's not and never was in the military. Another friend recently told me of how his daughter, never having shot a gun before, was taken to the range by her boyfriend and "had a blast" shooting different handguns, and, I think, rifles at targets. No blood ... big fun.
But then I go back around to deceased Chicago columnist Mike Royko's column where he suggested that the best in home security for grandma would be hand grenades. If grandma heard someone in the basement, why take the chance of confronting the intruder with a shotgun, or any type of gun.
So now I'm back in that corner again. How much is too much. And if you give a little, will you lose a lot? Is the gun industry going to push more and more "black rifles" and their handgun counterparts because it is a growth field and hunting is supposedly becoming old hat?
So many questions in this controversy, and I'm not finding a bunch of immediate answers. Except, "Leave my gun alone: is different than "Leave my RPG" (Rocket Propelled Grenade) alone.
There has to be a line somewhere. Just where does it start?
Gun shows abound in NW FL but I have never seen modified enbloc's. I suppose I could cut a piece of wood and use it as a buffer. That Garand is such a sweet shooting rifle but I would not want to risk losing it to a game warden for having over 5 rounds in it. I guess I could always use it as a one shot.
MANY THANKS! Deer in NW FL are now muttering "$HIT!"
I've got one of each!
Honestly, he can call them cannons or bazookas. He can call them unicorns if he wants. He said it for effect and I could care less about his wording, that's my point.
However, I certainly see where you're coming from & agree with you.
Already been done.
The "big hitters" - Remington and Mossy Oak - dropped him almost immediately. Others have followed suit (I posted specific info to another thread on this matter.)
His TV show was reportedly "pre-empted" Tuesday evening.
He still (apparently) remains as Outdoor Lifes' "Hunting Editor".
Lol.
You are right. The author knows next to nothing about hunting, military weapons or semi-automatic rifles. The AR10 is chambered in .308, which is a fine round for deer hunting. Illegal firearms & DDs have no place in this discussion.
I watched the fiasco over on Zumbo's forum. He pi##ed off the wrong crowd of people. After about 4000 angry entries threatening him and his employer, he apologized and said he saw the error of his ways. He even arranged with Ted Nugent for some AR-15 training.
Sincere or not? I dunno. It was refreshing to see however that hunters are still passionate about the original intent of the 2nd Amendment. These politicians (e.g, Giuliani) that push watered down flavors of gun control would be wise to go and read that forum.
In my experience, this rift does exist and it is kept simmering with cases of a thinly-veiled snobbery on the part of "rich" hunters and clays guys against "poor" practical pistol and milsurp guys.
Both sides had better start watching their manners and looking at the big picture lest the opponents of the Second Ammendment take advantage of the situation.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
You know you've been out in the woods too long when you can hear the deer cussing. 8^)
Best damn comment in this whole thread. I salute you.
Huh?? What does heck this have to do with anything? Totally lame article.
"Deer isn't the only game people hunt, you myopic imbecile. The AR-15 is chambered for the .223 Remington,which makes an excellent "predator"/varmint cartridge, etc."
Check out the 6.5 Grendel cartridge at www.65grendel.com. I'm saving up for an Alexander Arms rifle chambered in it. I certainly expect to hunt with it (of course using a 5-rd mag) as well as keeping it around for emergencies (not home defense, there are better weapons for that...12 gauge is my preference there). It should handle deer-sized game easily, and personally I'd not hesitate to hunt elk or moose with it.
The 6.5 Grendel has arguably better ballistics than the 7.62 NATO round, while fitting in a standard AR-15/M-16/M-4 magazine. I'd like to see the armed forces transition to it entirely...one nice effect of that would be the elimination of two different SAW variants. It would also eliminate the logistical issues of using both 7.62 and 5.56 ammo. The .50 HMGs would still be around of course. ;-)
1. 30-06 with a 5 round clip capable of firing a round over 1.5 miles and still have devistating power.
2. AR-15 with a 30 round clip fires .22LR rounds which are not allowed in some areas for deer hunting because they don't have enough stoping power.
Which one is the assault weapon and which one is a hunting weapon?
I find it very disappointing.
There are guys in my area who work a local (canning) factories, making maybe eight to ten bucks an hour.
They can get a SKS for $150, and hunt deer.
In my state, a firearms deer permit is $15. After purchasing that, you can get one or more (in most counties), antlerless permit(s) for $10.
With a minimal investment of $150-$200 on rifle, ammo, etc., and $25 for permits, a man can put a hell of a lot of venison in his freezer, to feed his kids.
This attitude of the Zumbo/Elmer Fudds just completely mystifies me.
http://www.fulton-armory.com/
Check out this site, I believe they have a 5 round clip.
The cartridge has nothing to do with the rifle. A .22LR would be unsuitable for deer, irregardless of what rifle it is chambered in.
Also,the AR-15 is chambered for a variety of cartridges. The most common seems to be .223 Remington, though I have seen them chambered for the 9mm Luger/Parabellum handgun cartridge, etc.
Which one is the assault weapon and which one is a hunting weapon?
Neither is an "assault weapon". That is a propaganda term, favored by anti-gun zealots, and used to demonize rifles, shotguns , and handguns, which they don't like.
Both can be used for hunting. As I stated earlier, deer aren't the only game people pursue in the field. There is a variety of game, for which the .223 Remington is perfectly suited.
BTW The AR-15 uses magazines, not clips.
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