Posted on 04/25/2008 7:44:34 PM PDT by blam
I thought stuffing and mounting was for things you are proud of.
I hadn’t seen your post before I posted 60. Sorry.
The title Princeps, BTW, was not a new one. The title Princeps Senatus had always been held by the leading (usually oldest) senator, and was basically a title of respect that carried no specific authority or power.
When Octavian acquired the title Princeps it implied that he was First among all Romans, not just the senators, and essentially meant First Citizen. It was increasingly used during Octavian’s reign and those following as a euphemism for Rex or King.
:-)
Cleopatra’s three children were taken back to Rome and raised by Antony’s widow, Octavian’s sister.
The girl, Cleopatra Selene, eventually married a north African king.
Wow! (I should have looked it up.)
Thank you!!
Octavia was pretty obviously an exceptional woman.
Good question. I’m curious myself.
If you like historical fiction, read The Memoirs of Cleopatra. Interesting.
OK, that makes sense. Of course, we have wax museums for that. ;-)
I can heartily recommend a whole series of novels by Colleen McCullough. They cover the whole decline and fall of the Republic from Marius to Cleopatra, Antony and Octavian.
Extremely well written and generally quite accurate, although she seems to have gotten the idea from somewhere that Caesar’s legions could routinely cover 40 miles day after day, building fortified camps each evening. I don’t think so.
Along with a good Valerian
So, he would not have been the first emperor.
The two of you disagree. Of course the Romans were called what they were called in Latin. Of course in English what ever they were called can be translated as “dictator” or as “victorious commander”, or “Winner of the Grass Crown”. Depending by your English definition, different people will fall into different categories.
Here is one dictator who did it right!
“Cincinnatus served as consul in 460 BC. During his consulship, Cincinnatus fought the Plebeian Tribune Gaius Terentilius Harsa. During this time period, the Roman senate was preoccupied with a war against a people called the Volsci, from a neighboring Italian city. Terentilius attempted to use this opening to push for a series of laws that would benefit the plebeians at the expense of the aristocracy. Cincinnatus was able to stop Terentilius from enacting his laws.
When the year 460 BC ended, Cincinnatus retired from politics, and went home to his farm.
In 457 BC, the Romans were fighting a tribe known as the Aequians, who lived near Rome. The consul Minucius Esquilinus had led an army to fight the Aequians. However, Minucius’ army had been trapped by the Aequians in the Alban Hills, and was attempting to fight off a siege. A few Roman horsemen escaped, and returned to Rome to tell the senate what had happened. The senate fell into a panic. As such, they authorized the other consul for the year, Horatius Pulvillus, to nominate a dictator. Horatius nominated Cincinnatus for a dictatorial term of six months.
A group of senators was sent to tell Cincinnatus that he had been nominated dictator. According to Livy, the senators found Cincinnatus while he was plowing on his farm. They said to Cincinnatus that they hoped “It might turn out well for both him and his country”, and then they asked him to put on his senatorial toga and hear the mandate of the senate. Cincinnatus cried out “Is everything all right?” He called out to his wife, telling her to bring him his toga from their cottage.
When he put on his toga, the senatorial delegation hailed him as dictator, and told him to come to the city. The delegation told him of the situation. Cincinnatus knew that his departure might mean starvation for his family if the crops went unsown in his absence. But he assented to the request anyway. He then crossed the Tiber river in a boat provided by the senate, as his farm was on the far side of the river. When he reached the other side of the Tiber, he was greeted by his three sons and most of the senators. Several lictors were given to him for protection.
The next morning, Cincinnatus went to the forum, and nominated Lucius Tarquitius Master of the Horse (his chief deputy). Tarquitius was considered to be one of the finest soldiers in Rome. Cincinnatus then went to the popular assembly, and issued an order. He ordered everyone of military age to report to the Campus Martius (Field of Mars) by the end of the day.
Once the army assembled, Cincinnatus took them to fight the Aequi. Cinncinnatus led the infantry in person, while Tarquitius led the cavalry. The Aequi were surprised by the double attack, and were soon cut to pieces. The commanders of the Aequi begged Cincinnatus to not slaughter them all.
Cincinnatus did not want to cause any unnecessary bloodshed. He told Aequi that he would let them live if they submitted to him. He said that their general, Gracchus Cloelius, as well as his officers, would have to be brought to him in chains. When this occurred, a yoke was set up. The yoke was made up of three spears, and the Aequi had to pass under it, while confessing that they had been conquered. Once this occurred, the war ended, and Cincinnatus disbanded his army. He then resigned his dictatorship and returned to his farm, a mere sixteen days after he had been nominated dictator.
His immediate resignation of his absolute authority with the end of the crisis has often been cited as an example of good leadership, service to the public good, civic virtue, and modesty. He came out of retirement again during his second term as dictator (439 BC) to put down a revolt by the plebeians. After the war Cincinnatus left the job and picked back up where he left off, working at a farm.”
ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnatus
Sorry, I disagree. (If I understand what you're talking about.)
Imperator under the Republic was a military honor awarded to their commander by the soldiers themselves.
Dictator was a constitutional political office intended to allow efficient handling of a military or political crisis without changing the entire system.
Thanks for posting the article about Cincinnatus, who epitomized what a dictator should be.
Although frankly I think it's ludicrous to claim that his family would have starved if a prominent enough patrician of Rome to be appointed Dictator didn't get a crop in on the family farm. While Cincinnatus was still willing to work a plow, even at this early stage in Rome patricians were wealthy men, not dependent for sheer survival on a single crop.
My error.
At the time of Cincinnatus, the Republic was still a very small operation. Patricians were not always wealthy men, at least not by the scale of the later Republic.
However, clan ties and the honor of the Republic would certainly not have allowed the starvation of the family of a leader who died fighting for the state.
Parts of Egypt are beautiful.
Whatever you do, DON’T DRINK THE WATER. Be careful of the food too. Ooohh, did I get sick there.
You may be right about the state supporting a former dictator, but on the whole I think Livy is probably closer to the story than you. In fact, I kind of like the story of a government that was so far from corrupt that a dictator would have to worry. Livy certainly didn’t derive that story from his personal experience with the Principate.
You perhaps recall that Thomas Jefferson wasn’t very wealthy at the end of his life, and didn’t get much help from the smallish country of which he had twice been elected president. If only we had such an honest and austere government today, and perhaps tomorrow!
What Latin word do you think the Romans used for their title that we translate as “dictator”?
Camillus was appointed Roman dictator (365 BC), nominally to attend the war of Velletri. However, at Rome, the patricians of the Senate were expecting, actually, that Camillus would be their leverage against the agitated plebeians because the crisis of social classes had worsened by a quite severe economical pass.
For the roman magistracy, the populists were demanding a dyad of Roman consuls, of whom one should be a plebeian always. Through a bogus military call, Camillus attempted to trick the plebeian concil so it might not meet to approve such plans. The enraged assemblymen were about punishing Camillus when he renounced his office of Dictator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Furius_Camillus
TJ, if I remember correctly, owned well over 100 slaves when he died. Only a few of these were freed by his will, because he was so deeply in debt that the rest had to be sold to pay his creditors.
TJ had lived a life of luxury and extravagance. Monticello always had to have the latest luxuries, including expensive French wines. When TJ died, his slaves paid the price.
George Washington, OTOH, ordered his lfe so that when he died he was able to free his slaves.
I know who I consider the more admirable person. TJ, while an accomplished writer, is vastly overrated as a man, IMO. He was kind of a jerk.
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