( Please don't joint the greedy, property owning, selfish capitalists against the greater good, and the building of People's paradise by enlighten leaders like Willie )
Posted on 08/15/2010 5:34:39 AM PDT by Willie Green
Conventional wisdom may say otherwise, but the recession is a good time to start spending the billions of dollars it will take to make high-speed rail travel a reality in this country. The benefits of that economic stimulus could not be denied.
Don't we already have high-speed rail lines, you might ask. And the answer is no, not really, as staff writer Paul Nussbaum pointed out in a four-part series of articles that ran last week in The Inquirer.
While Amtrak's fastest train, the Acela Express, chugs along at about 70 miles per hour, Spain's AVE Train cruises at 186 m.p.h.
Think about it: Trains traveling that fast would slice in half the five hours it now takes the Acela to get to Boston from Philadelphia. A New York-to-Washington trek becomes a 90-minute jaunt. Visiting or working in one Northeast Corridor city while living in another one suddenly becomes a much easier feat to accomplish.
A growing movement to take America where Europe and Asia have been for years with high-speed rail now includes President Obama, who recently committed $8 billion in stimulus money to new rail projects, including $1.2 billion toward the cost of a Tampa-to-Orlando high-speed line that may become the nation's first.
But Obama is just sticking his toe in the water. To get fully immersed, a much bigger financial commitment has to be made. A national network of high-speed lines will cost up to a $1 trillion, spread out over several decades. But the investment would pay huge dividends, including tens of thousands of new construction and manufacturing jobs.
The investment needed would be comparable to the effort that began the interstate highway system. It will require careful analysis of where it would make sense to put high-speed lines.
That's actually a conversation that needs to be had about all rail travel in this country. Government subsidies for lightly used Amtrak routes aren't justified.
Transportation and other government officials at all levels, as well as consumers and other stakeholders, must be fully involved in these discussions. They can get a good head start by considering an excellent proposal for a Northeastern high-speed line developed by the University of Pennsylvania School of Design.
The PennDesign plan includes new tracks for two rail lines dedicated to high-speed trains traveling from Boston to Washington. High-speed stations would also be built in Baltimore, Philadelphia, Hartford, Conn., and Long Island, N.Y. The new tracks would free existing tracks for commuter and freight service.
The popularity of these high-speed lines could triple Amtrak ridership in the Northeast Corridor to 55 million annual riders by 2040. The amenities needed to serve riders at new stations will benefit the surrounding communities. Increased train travel will also reduce the need for new roads, and the environment will benefit from reduced carbon emissions from cars.
It makes sense to integrate a new high-speed rail system with commuter lines and air carriers to build a transportation network better than anything in Europe. The cost will be great, but so will the benefits. Obama should emulate Eisenhower on highways, and make a defining investment in the needed infrastructure.
Where does this plan put a station on LI? Woodside?
Does it replace the Hell Gate bridge?
I love trains. I have lots of ‘em in the basement. But the idea of a multi-trillion dollar eminent domain seizure of the homes and estates of the richest and most powerful people in the planet in NJ and Westchester/Fairfield counties is just a ridiculous fantasy.
That’s so cool. I’ve never heard or seen it.
But hey, Willie and I want to know, because I’m against it, and he is for hacks, unions, featherbedding, subsidize, taxpayers getting sodomized, how much the Megabus company is getting in Federal, State grants?
What? They are private? Tax paying? Profit hoping? Done with private investor capital at no risk to the general public?
Huh? What is that activity called? Cap..capi...um ‘free Willie..er free enterprise’?
Right now, not thirty years in the future, I-95 between Boston and Northern Virgina does 55 million riders in.....
........A week
By 2040, Global Oil reserves will have been depleted, and the petroleum fueled vehicles that we're familiar with today will be as rare as a horse and buggy. The individual electric vehicles under consideration are impractical alternatives and no better than golf carts. That's why we need to upgrade our passenger rail systems. Future ridership will likely be much higher than what is being projected due to the impact of Peak Oil.
They can’t even fund a demonstration of a dedicated service between Ann Arbor and Detroit on existing rail. So far their best projections are around $70 per trip for what is a 30 to 40 minute drive at a fraction of the cost.
(too good freepmail reply I just answered about NonFree Willie and his problem with freight train lines and their private, paid for property)
“...
Yeah, I didn’t even mention the extra cost to the economy, somewhere, that will have to be paid, ultimately by the consumer, thus making us all a little poorer, of his lying euphemism of ‘untangling the freight train log jam’.
Like as if the track owning, track repairing, track paying freight lines are the problem.
That is socialism. The thing, the people, the companies that do the work, and in this case literally carry the freight, are the problems to his socialist, dreamy, money sucking, tax burdening racket.
In short, life would be good without those people, or companies, or things that actually do the work, competitively, and produce profits to be taxed. Socialists, communists, Democrats, liberals, Willie always see private property owners, and workers, and producers as the problem. And, other than paying in a open free market, what a willing seller wants to sell for, Willie, the Democrats, Socialists, Communists want to take over the ‘means of production’ with out paying full, free and a fair price to a willing seller. In short they want to take, by government force.
And that folks, is the mind and values and politics of Willie Green, Free Republics most consistent leftists.
No it doesn't. You are ignoring centuries of evidence that proves exactly the opposite happens. By it's very nature anything that is subsidized becomes less competitive and more costly. You are ignoring the fact that government will seize ever increasing amounts of land and resources to build the infrastructure without regard to what it could or would have been used for by the private sector.
The construction of such rail system will benefit the unionized DemonRAT voting construction workers at a cost of 4 to 5 times what taxpaying private sector workers would cost.
Then the operation of said rail system will be carried out by subsidized unionized employees that will cost 4 to 5 times what private sector workers would cost.
This is all to benefit the very limited number of people that commute along a narrow corridor.
Even before the initial construction is complete there will be additional taxes required to support improvements and repairs.
Every aspect of anything subsidized by the government will take away from efficient use of capital and resources that would have been invested elsewhere more productively.
This is a typical socialist program, from the many, for the few.
Nope. Been hearing that crap for forty years and have read of those statements for over a hundred years. Right now, with present coal reserves, and present crude prices we have 3-400 years of coal to oil conversion, in the US, for the present world economy. If we wish.
Willie, read a bit. Here is a new word for you. Malthus.
There are so many holes in the choo choo marxists arguments its not funny. They know the holes exist but they’re marxists and lying is as easy to them as breathing.
They run their mouths about getting that freight off the rails and out of the way despite the fact its really the only efficient use of trains. Instead they want all freight carried long distance on the same roads they want to make so expensive we’ll all be forced onto their fantasy choo choo.
They don’t have the manhood to talk about the freedom or eminent domain issues involved
Willie, did'ja ever take a ...a...chemistry course in your life?
Petroleum? Willie?
You mean....Hydro---carbon? Right? As in ....
hydro...water and
carbon...wood, coal, trash, trees....
As in the three most common, plentiful, recyclable elements in the freek'n world. ( O,H,C )
And we're supposed to run out?
Is it a prerequisite that a lefty be scientifically ignorant? I know 99% of the lefties I know haven't had a science, a physics, an organic or inorganic chemistry course ever, but I'm just curious if it is an absolute requirement to be a card holding, aqua carrying, sandel wearing, Volvo driving, bunny hugging lefty.
( Please don't joint the greedy, property owning, selfish capitalists against the greater good, and the building of People's paradise by enlighten leaders like Willie )
I thought trains were far more efficient that that.
Wow, spend billions to save 20- 25% ?
I'm even less inclined than before. As if my opinion counted.
Where will the money come from?
One way Amtrak to NYC from DC = $127.00
Only because you've waited too long to book this afternoon's train.
Of course if you're really in a hurry, there's still time to shell out $143 for one that leaves this morning.
However, for passengers who's schedules aren't so myopic, the regular fare is $74 bucks by booking just a few days in advance.
And it's a more relaxing trip than getting seated next to some wino on the discount bus.
Those things often get stuck in traffic congestion anyway. Amtrak is much faster and more reliable.
Where will the money come from?
From the money we ALL save from not having to import as much foreign oil.
I wonder if the 25% less fuel consummed by a train is once its in motion or if that includes the enormous amount of fuel needed to get it moving?
The idea of trains making multiple stops would negate both the speed and the supposed fuel savings. There are dozens of small towns along the main line running across southern Michigan but AMTRAK only makes 5 stops along the way and I suspect each train doesn’t make every stop.
If trains bring such economic booms, why are so many towns with existing passenger services such basket cases?
Notice that it wasn't Amtrack vs car commuting, it was only cars with one passengers, that Amtrack, barely, was more efficient. What about two commuters? . Oh, well, that would make cars MORE efficient than Amtrack. What about the mostly individual use of cars mix with more than one passenger? I.e, the real, present world? Then it is nearly even. Except car users don't need subsidies, unlike socialists Amtrack passenger trains.
Actually, if Willie was interest in efficiencies, we would let passenger trains die a natural, free market death, instead of being a zombie activity, and let the freight lines move more goods, getting heavy, road eating, trucks off the roads for light, rubber wheeled, 24/7 transport units( cars ).( Willie be liking transport jargon. Make him smart. )
I thought trains were far more efficient that that.
Wow, spend billions to save 20- 25% ?
As a true conservative I supplied you with a conservative estimate based on current actual data for Amtrak's conventional/antiquated rolling stock, Vinnie.
Commuter routes deploying passenger rail technology such as US Railcar's DMU can achieve fuel efficiencies up to 468 passenger-miles per US gallon if loaded to full passenger capacity as happens frequently during business rush hours.
Petroleum? Willie?
You mean....Hydro---carbon? Right? As in ....
hydro...water and
carbon...wood, coal, trash, trees....
As in the three most common, plentiful, recyclable elements in the freek'n world. ( O,H,C )
And we're supposed to run out?
It takes millions of years to recycle them, bonehead.
That's why they're called fossil fuels.
Is it a prerequisite that a lefty be scientifically ignorant?
As your confession demonstrates, yes it is.
Without it, we will pay through the nose if all we have available and without free market competition, is domestic oil.
Just set aside your Populist/Socialist rhetoric for a moment and look at the World from a Capitalist, private sector, free market standpoint. Your exalted AMTRAK, is a complete and utter failure from a free market philosophy. In other words, if your worshiped Federal Government did not pay for all the waste, poor management and inability for this monstrosity to make a profit, it would have gone out of business decades ago.
People just do not have the time to travel under such limited and inefficient methods. It is by far, more efficient to make errands, buy groceries, etc, all in one trip.
I will give you one thing, you do have the ability to blow clouds of smoke/steam and rhetoric. Perhaps you could fuel AMTRAC/High-speed Rail on that. Now there would be the greatest saving for us hard working, evil Capitalists
Ah, wrong again my scientifically chanllaged lefty.
What are commonly called ‘fossil fuels’ is a theory, not a fact. You know, as in, ‘facts’.
Years of production left in the ground with the current proved reserves and flows above
* Coal: 148 years
* Oil: 43 years
* Natural gas: 61 years
Were down to 252 years, at present rate consumption, provided we find zero, zip, nada for the next quarter of a thousand years.
Yeah, good argument for your lefty, socialist, hack, union choo=choo dreams.
Years of production left in the ground with the most optimistic proved reserve estimates (Oil & Gas Journal, World Oil)[citation needed]
* Coal: 417 years
* Oil: 43 years
* Natural gas: 167 years
(627 years)
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