My instructor told our class that CHL licensees packing guns had already stopped more than 1,000 shooters in Texas alone ... and that was more than six years ago!
Posted on 01/15/2016 4:53:13 AM PST by SJackson
What if a bad guy with a gun starts shooting?
Dallas ABC affiliate WFAA attempted to put to the test the adage, declared by National Rifle Association's Wayne LaPierre after the Sandy Hook massacre, that "the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."
"Many Texans choose to arm themselves," the WFAA report began, "but how prepared are the 'good guys' to protect their own families... and even the public? How would they would perform if a 'bad guy' with a gun starts shooting?"
The station retained two experts to create an exercise that would put their readiness to the test: Travis Bond, the managing member of the DFW Shooters Academy in Highland Village, an instructor with 32 years of training and law enforcement experience, and for the "bad guy," Shawn Clary, a SWAT team member and tactical instructor with 22 years experience. Clary was carrying an AR-15 that also shot plastic pellets.
For the good guys, the station chose three men and a woman with concealed handgun licenses and various degrees of training. The participants were armed with helmets, goggles and training pistols with plastic pellets. They were given no details except that they would be encountering an armed assailant in different office space scenarios. They were not told Clary was wearing body armor, which meant in order to kill or wound the bad guy, they would have to score a hit to the head, neck, or pelvis.
There were two scenarios - a busy office space with tall cubicles in which workers could not see each other, and a conference room crowded with coworkers. First Clary played the role of an angry co-worker who fired warning shots and then methodically made his way past cubicles, pretending to kill workers along the way.
The first participant stayed in his cubicle, crouching and using his chair as cover. He struck Clary with what would have been two fatal rounds. "He put rounds right into my upper torso and head area above where the body armor is," Clary said. "He did very well."
The next participant, scrambling into a darkened cubicle, took cover and opened fire, scoring a couple of fatal wounds as well. "I received some rounds in the arm and got one in the head," Clary said. "That would be a kill shot."
. The third participant, the woman, hit Clary's vest, and the fourth intentionally chose to hit the body armor. "I shot him in the vest on purpose. I didn't want to hit him in the head, because it wasn't real life to me."
Next Clary, pretending to be a terrorist, stormed a crowded conference room and ordered everyone to put their hands on their heads. His plan was to shoot workers one at a time until stopped, but one of the participants saw an opportunity and drew his weapon, scoring a "fatal" wound on Clary. "Not only did he engage me at the right time, he made a good hit," said Clary.
Another participant did the same when it was his turn. "He did a good job," Clary said. "Plus, his weapon was concealed, so I didn't know he was a threat."
One of the participants made a "fatal tactical decision," however, by wearing his weapon on his hip. "If you want to take that as an open carry kind of scenario, that's exactly what I would have done as a bad guy coming in," Clary said. "I saw that he was armed -- he's my first target." Lesson learned for all the participants.
Weapons trainer Travis Bond said the best way to overcome the unknown is to prepare for it. "By going through the training and experiencing different things -- and specifically looking for opportunities to engage, and knowing when not to engage -- is as important as anything," he said.
Criminals do not wear body armor.
Other than the bank robbers years ago in CA ... there have been others since.
Sounds like the ‘good guys’ did well.
Moral of the story: Be armed and ready
Thanks for posting.
I know some who open carry, but having been an LEO, I am personally loathe to the idea. With the random bad guy, weapon retention is the greatest concern - which is why most cops that are shot, are shot with their own weapon.
As for a terrorist scenario, open carry makes you the first target. Concealed evens up the odds.
My instructor told our class that CHL licensees packing guns had already stopped more than 1,000 shooters in Texas alone ... and that was more than six years ago!
And even if they do wear body armor a hit with a 9mm or .40 round is going to ... hurt. A lot. And knock them down.
The goal isn’t to kill an assailant, although that may be an added benefit. It’s to immobilize them long enough to save yourself and others.
Besides, knocking them down then allows you to go up and start kicking them in the head. Or groin ... ;-)
But cops are told this about any potential adversary, so they are trained to continue to shoot until the threat has ended. Which is why you so often see 15 or more shots fired by police against an assailant.
What’s wrong with this picture??????!!!!!??????
Criminals with guns almost always have little experience with weapons and are novices - NOT well-trained SWAT members!
And a significant number of CCW holders ARE experienced with their weapon - though I’d agree far too many are not.
Couldn’t be a worse test scenario for that reason.
How about some statistics on where CCW or armed good guys who are not LEO’s confront armed criminals and come out on the losing end? Pretty rare, I’m sure........
This story opens up the potential for a follow-up story where WFAA has a business owner/CEO that bans carry on the job watch this piece and have an interview after to see if the person is willing to change the policy.
I know. I really do.
But it’s a small percentage of the equation...
BTW - where do you buy body armor?
Another mindless kabuki show by elitist snobs.
“And knock them down.”
Not always by a long shot, especially with a pistol round. F=ma. Physics is a real bitch.
:: he’s my first target ::
neither do they make rational tactical decisions.
“... allows you to go up and start kicking them ...”
Exactly why, unless you are out of ammo, would you want to kick them? Ever hear of the ‘double tap?’ In a situation like this you have already delivered the first tap ... now finish the job.
Yeah, BECAUSE 97% OF THEM HAPPENED IN GUN FREE ZONES!!!
(But "somehow," they forgot to mention that fact.)
Totally agree. Why give up the element of surprise? Why set yourself up for ambush coming out of the men’s room, a sap from behind, goodbye gun? Etc etc etc.
I was joking with that!
But there’s a line where engaging in self defense becomes conducting a summary execution. Which is illegal. You cant immobilize an assailant then administer a coup de grace with a double tap.
I’d think, hypothetically (and I WAS joking about it) you’d be on better ground legally with kicking them ... could always claim they were trying to get up and you didn’t want to kill them, just keep them down.
For the most part - those intending a mass shooting are more likely.
Vests are more likely these days but the upper thighs make effective targets as most won't have the full suit of armor. If they fall in the right direction, the inner groin gives a path into the body cavity.
The biggest thing is situational awareness - Dean Koontz tried to "make a point" in one of his stories about guns not being effective because his scenario had a trained killer knock at the door and shoot as soon as the "gun nut" opened it. Unless one is going to allow himself to be at least a little paranoid, he is likely to be open to same treatment w/o thinking about it.
Seems the participants made the point that citizens with guns can be effective if they have anything at all on the ball.
Years (!) ago, I took a security course for travelers. One of the things they discussed was to NEVER look through the peep hole in a door if you did not know exactly who was on the other side.
Stand to the side and put your finger over the hole and see what happens. Or call out and ask who it is without approaching the door.
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