Posted on 11/13/2018 10:53:06 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
President Donald Trump escalated his verbal assaults against France on Tuesday, suggesting that America’s stalwart European ally would have been vanquished in both world wars if not for the military firepower provided by the United States.
Trump tweeted about a suggestion by French President Emmanuel Macron that Europe build up its militaries because the continent can no longer depend on the U.S. for defense. Macron had also said Europe needs to protect itself against cyberthreats from China, Russia and the U.S.
Macron’s comments were inaccurately reported and Trump continues to misrepresent them, seemingly for political hay. The French leader’s office said Trump had lumped together Macron’s remarks on protecting against cyber-threats and “interference in our democracies” from “China, Russia and even the United States” with Macron’s later statement on military defense....
(Excerpt) Read more at columbian.com ...
Stalin didn’t think so. He once told Khrushchev that alone the USSR could not have stood up to the concentrated pressure of the Reich.
DeGaulle also caused a big stink when he visited Montréal and said, “Vive le Québec libre !”
For an alternative time-line, what if a nationalist leader had not only *not persecuted the Jews*, but had co-opted them much like our very own neo-cons?
What if all the leading Jewish scientists - like Einstein - had not only stayed, but were active in the war effort? Heck, Germany might have had atomic weapons before 1939.
If so, it would have been game, set & match.
Without Lend-Lease the Soviets would have lost. At least, that’s what Stalin said.
The irony was if you looked at Europe at the time WWI started, you could make the case that Germany was the least anti-semitic country in Europe.
I think the President is referring to the 1914-1918 France, as in the Great War, War to End All Wars (LOL), or, as we now call it, World War I.
The Germans were close to atomic weapons. It was one of Churchill’s biggest fears. He sent commandos on a series of daring raids aimed at sabotaging Hitler’s nuclear program wherever it was vulnerable to the Allies.
William Stephenson, Churchill’s spymaster, would later say of those raiders: “If it had not been for [the saboteur’s] resolve, the Germans would have had the opportunity to devastate the civilised world. We would be either dead or living under Hitler’s zealots”.
I guess it’s reasonable to say that it’s hard to define “defeat” until there’s a formal ceremony, and obviously DeGaulle didn’t think Petain had any weight to speak for the entire nation so long as a defense could be mounted from...Martinique?! (being coy there...there was always Algeria!).
But I think territorially the Wehrmacht won more then just a tactical skirmish line. Occupying Paris and all the way to the sea in Brittany is pretty convincing.
And saying they were defeated in WWI is certainly stretching it more: that was really a strategic stalemate and nothing more, that was when the French army was still formidable. But being bled white very rapidly...
So I can agree with some criticism of the blanket statement I made, but we can all agree that real defeat would have been permanent had not the real allies - England, America and Russia - been in the fight.
And yes, it was a matter of time before the twin programs of the fission bomb and the bomber to deliver it would have decisively ended the argument. So a view from 30,000 ft would be “they have a lot of ground, but it won’t help them in the end” is reasonable.
Germany is lucky that the 3rd Army punched through into the Rhineland when they did. Had they not, Berlin would have been the first place on the planet to be turned into a radioactive cinder.
If the U.S. hadn’t supplied the Soviet Union with materiel, I doubt the Germans would have failed in the east even with Germany having to fight in the west.
France WAS defeated by Germany in 1940, and in just six weeks!
Germany probably couldn’t have won....but without western aid, The Soviet Union wouldn’t have won either. They could have pushed the Germans back, but couldn’t have sustained any offensives into Central Europe. The result would’ve been a very bloody stalemate.
I've traveled pretty extensively throughout Europe, and much to my wife's boredom, I usually zero in on their respective military museums. And what is perhaps most striking is that *no one* every gets the "permanent" jump on anyone else. Every major country has experienced both victory and loss. Oh sure, they may be down for a hundred years or so, but then the tables get turned.
And then, if one wants to get really philosophical, consider the Roman republic/empire, which last for almost 1k years in the west, and 2k if we count the east. To what extent did they impart a lasting influence? Law, language, customs? But holding territory, enforcing laws, imposing tribute/taxes - all dust in the wind.
Same true in Europe today - defeated the Moslems 400 years ago - but now subject to invasion and control. And yet, time doesn't stop here either, because a backwards Islamic country in 100-200 years will be ripe pickings from an technologically advanced country like, say a combined Polish/Czech/Hungarian force.
It’s pretty obvious the Germans would have defeated the British and the French without America. Even with America’s help, it’s not like the Germans were resoundly defeated. The war was never taken to Germany.
We gave the Russians lots of aid don’t kid yourself
It wasn’t always so..,France helped Israel with nukes
Exactly. They were defeated easily. We rescued them.
That speech ignited the separatist movement and made the
Québécois think France would reunite with them
Meanwhile 300 years of non-union left their French in a
rustic state
Frenchmen come to visit and laugh at their patois
“Not really. The war on the Eastern Front had already turned bad for the Germans by the time Pearl Harbor hit.”
Thanks to Lend Lease and all the other aid. Russia would’ve starved to death long before they took Germany had we not been footing the bill. It was Russian made tanks that rolled into Berlin but it was American machines that built them and American trucks and train engines that were hauling the gas and food to keep them moving.
Germany stomped Russia and would’ve kept stomping had we not helped them completely rebuild their industry on the other side of the Urals. Russians would’ve starved to death trying to rebuild if not for the colossal amount of food we sent.
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