Posted on 03/26/2024 5:27:33 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
I suppose we're supposed to be happy that a New York appeals court reduced the amount of bond President Trump must post, just for the 'privilege' of appealing New York's outrageous, excessive, utterly vindictive, $454 million fine over a victimless crime from the state's little kangaroo court.
According to Fox News:
An appeals court slashed former President Trump's bond payment on Monday, saying Trump must pay $175 million within the next 10 days.
Trump had previously faced a Monday deadline to pay a $454 million bond payment that came as a result of civil fraud allegations from New York Attorney General Letitia James.
A New York Appeals Court, hours before the deadline to post the $454 million, lowered that bond considerably. The court ordered that Trump post $175 million within 10 days.
Trump said he will "abide" by the appeals decision and post the $175 million bond.
If Trump does post the $175 million by the new deadline, it would effectively block James from attempts to seize Trump's assets as he continues to appeal the judgment by New York Judge Arthur Engoron.
Supposedly, Trump overvalued his assets to get loans, which isn't a 'crime' anyone else prosecutes, because there weren't any victims. Both borrower and lender were happy with their deal, and Trump paid back the loans in full and on time. Now the banks are angling to do more business with him.
But none of that mattered in that crummy, politicized courtroom, where the leering, giggling, judge, Arthur Engoron, and his rabid fanatic prosecutor, Leticia James, both known Trump-haters, dropped every rule of decency and judicial restraint. They dished out a draconian and ruinous fine from numbers they pulled out of the air, just because they could.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Is there any evidence that Trump did over-estimate the value of his property? Wasn’t that just Engoron’s opinion based on his valuation of Mar-a-Lago at $18 million?
RE: No crime is victimless, otherwise it wouldn’t be a crime
But it wasn’t a crime. The word “crime” should have been placed in quotes here.
It’s a FABRICATED “crime”.
Trump did have additional leverage, appealing to SCOTUS.
“No crime is victimless, otherwise it wouldn’t be a crime”.
Well, you got that part right. No victims here- no crime either.
“I’m just going to assume you don’t know very much about what’s going on with this case.”
And assuming is not real sound.
Trump and his company massively overvalued his assets, creating “a fantasy world” on the financial statements he gave to banks and others, Judge Arthur Engoron found in the lawsuit brought by the New York attorney general.
Trump’s Florida Mar-a-Lago club, for example, was overvalued on one financial statement by as much as 2,300%, the judge found.
The former president also lied about the size of his Trump Tower penthouse apartment, claiming it was nearly three times its actual size and worth $327 million, according to the ruling.
The exaggerated picture of Trump’s wealth got him more favorable loan terms and lowered insurance costs, the attorney general argued.
That discrepancy from a real estate developer describing his own longtime home “can only be considered fraud,” the judge wrote.
He created false financial statements, he accepted loans on false terms that he lied to get, thus he defrauded companies out of money he would have had to pay. And that’s why the law is there.
Under the ruling, limited-liability companies that control some of his key properties, such as 40 Wall Street, will be “dissolved” and authority over how to run them handed over to receivers. So employees were sent packing.
The judge’s order, if not successfully appealed, could mean Trump would no longer have any say in who to hire or fire, who to rent office space to, whether to pay back loans or take on new ones, essentially make any decision in New York state. And this will go on a credit report that could place other properties into investigation in other states possibly terminating others under his employ.
Clinton lied under oath and was not charged or impeached for perjury and he got off scot free. Trump lied contractually and they prosecuted him and people are saying that’s wrong. Please make up your minds. Either we have laws to protect people, or we don’t.
Will I still vote for him...yes. But he broke the law so he is paying the price. And with the numbers he works with, it isn’t that much. But saying others do it to let him escape the law is not the answer either. It all comes down to two wrongs...
Wy69
“It’s a FABRICATED “crime”.
Fraud is not a fabricated crime especially at those numbers effecting that many employees.
wy69
“Anytime you ask more than what the county tax appraiser values it you are committing a crime by this standard.”
He didn’t ask, he created fraudulent financial document and submitted them to financial organizations for the purpose of keeping from paying additional money. Fraud
wy69
so like I said, anytime you go to a bank and estimate the value of your home for more than the tax appraised value for the purpose of getting a loan you are committing the same crime.
"Trump and his company massively overvalued his assets, creating “a fantasy world” on the financial statements he gave to banks and others, Judge Arthur Engoron found in the lawsuit brought by the New York attorney general.
Why are you accepting the words of a hostile judge that found Trump guilty before the trial? The judge already had massively UNDER-estimated the value of Mar-a-Lago. His subjective opinion was that Trump's property values were overstated. Trump's companies routinely included a "brand premium" in their property valuations, which the Trump brand does carry and support. When they sold properties, they were routinely sold for MORE than they were on the books for. There is literally no proof of any over-statement of values.
"Trump’s Florida Mar-a-Lago club, for example, was overvalued on one financial statement by as much as 2,300%, the judge found."
Same as above. In the Mar-a-Lago example, the judge said it was worth only $18 million, while real estate experts valued it in excess of $1 billion. Vacant land in Palm Beach, running the full width from the inter-coastal to the ocean is worth more than $18 million.
"The former president also lied about the size of his Trump Tower penthouse apartment, claiming it was nearly three times its actual size and worth $327 million, according to the ruling.
Explained at trial - it was a 3-story apartment of 10,000 sq. ft. This was mistakenly taken to mean 3 10,000 sq. ft. floors, totaling 30,000 sq. ft. It was self-corrected long before the charges were brought.
The exaggerated picture of Trump’s wealth got him more favorable loan terms and lowered insurance costs, the attorney general argued.
The banks did their own due-diligence, applied their own valuations, and set lending rates accordingly. You'd have to explain further why you believe this got him more favorable loan terms. Likewise, you'd need to explain further why insurance costs would be lower on a higher valued property.
That discrepancy from a real estate developer describing his own longtime home “can only be considered fraud,” the judge wrote.
Again, why are you believing any of this rogue judge's musings?
He created false financial statements, he accepted loans on false terms that he lied to get, thus he defrauded companies out of money he would have had to pay. And that’s why the law is there."
See ALL of the above. NONE of what you say here is true.
“Why are you accepting the words of a hostile judge that found Trump guilty before the trial?”
I am not worried about what the judge said prior to the trial.
The evidence supported the verdict. At Mar-A-Lago, you are reading the real estate people’s estimates, not what the state is saying which is the legal determination. So why are you accepting a guesstimate from someone who doesn’t have the final say on the amount? The Palm Beach County tax appraiser’s valuations ranged from $18 million to $37 million depending on what is being evaluated. Top end $37 million is a whole lot less than $1 billion.
Mar-a-Lago’s property tax bill will be $602,000 this year, county records show. U.S. Rep. Jared Moskowitz, a South Florida Democrat, wrote the county saying if Trump claims Mar-a-Lago is worth $1 billion, he should be taxed accordingly. If Mar-a-Lago had a $1 billion assessed value, it’s property tax bill would be approximately $18 million. So Trump falsifies documents to make it a billion and gets taxed for approximately $18 million and you question the difference?
“NONE of what you say here is true.”
And all of what you say is your opinion. I quoted sources, not guessed based upon my party affiliation. Take the time to look up the numbers based upon what they were determined to be, and don’t forget he lied and misled on documents to the courts that you say were easily explained and never should have been turned in that was determined to be misleading the court, and he has got law problems. So far you’ve questioned the judge with using sources that are legally recognized and not real estate people who even said it wasn’t w2orth $1 billion, you probably didn’t know the actual tax amounts from ‘Florida, and you tell me I’m misinformed. Do your homework and find out facts rather than your opinion. And that’s where you should start.
wy69
“...you are committing the same crime...”
You are right on the nosey. And by turning the documents that were false or misleading he did it on purpose as they would have been checked for amounts and the main source for determining property values is the state tax assessors (Florida). He and his legal team shouldn’t be that stupid. And I can’t see how they thought they would get away with it. There’s a big difference between assessed value and what the property might be worth in Trump’s opinion. He might could sell the property for $1B. After all, there’s a sucker born every minute.
wy69
RE: Fraud is not a fabricated crime
Where’s the fraud? There is none, there was no victim. It was a NORMAL business transaction where everyone profited.
Therefore IT WAS INDEED FABRICATED.
The owner of a property has NO role in determining the taxable value of real estate. No document of Trump's is, or ever would be used in arriving at his property's tax value. That determination is the sole responsibility of the taxing authority, under State law. The only potential role for the property owner is in their ability to contest a valuation when a periodic revaluation is performed. If the county valued it in a range of $18-$37 million, that's on them. (but I'd also note that they don't have values in ranges - they have a specific tax-value. The 2023 value was $37 million.)
BUT, in Florida, tax values and appraisals are not estimates of true market value. In fact, the County appraiser's office includes this disclaimer on their web-site: "BUYERS TAKE NOTE: Taxes will change and often increase substantially when a property sells. The seller’s exemption benefits will GO AWAY the year after they sell and this may result in higher taxes for a buyer."
And your citation? A (bitter) partisan Democrat - Jared Moskowitz. Just 'cause a Democrat says it, doesn't make it true. That's as true for Moskowitz as it is for the NY judge and Leticia James.
I notice that your references and citations all point back to Democrats. Why is that?
“That determination is the sole responsibility of the taxing authority, under State law.”
If that’s the case, then I guess the documents submitted by Trump and were detgermined over inflated by the court didn’t mean anything. But he sure called them fraudulent. Don’t bother me anymore. You talk in circles and only go by party affiliation and not the law. Go away. You’re a hack.
wy69
“That determination is the sole responsibility of the taxing authority, under State law.”
If that’s the case, then I guess the documents submitted by Trump and were detgermined over inflated by the court didn’t mean anything. But he sure called them fraudulent. Don’t bother me anymore. You talk in circles and only go by party affiliation and not the law. Go away. You’re a hack.
wy69
They should reduce it to -$500,000. President Trump was tried in a kangaroo court and all his rights were prohibited.
Read the article and it will tell you what he owes, and from the fraud determination based upon the over inflation.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-carroll-fines-82d423b8e7a7f9a32470729c5f4410e5
This is a February article, so it lists the original determinations and specifically determines fraud from his doctored financial statements.
wy69
Proving again, you don't understand the difference between a property's tax value, and a property's market-value. If you can't see Trump that is being railroaded at this point, it can only be willing blindness on your part.
I'd suggest you'd be the one to move along now. You're obviously on the wrong web-site to get any agreement with your specious arguments.
You’re sort of an idiot.
I read the entire article and NOTHINg in it tells me exactly what crime he committed that warrantsd half a billion dollars in fines and confiscation of the property(ies) he built.
So, YOU tell me what crime he committed other than to say to his potential loaners that his property is worth X, which the loaners, upon doing due dilligence, negotiated with him, gave him the loan and were PAID BACK ON TIME, WITH INTEREST and MADE MONEY.
So, I ask you, where in the article you referred to is the so-called crime shown, there’s none other than Letitia James saying “because I said so”.
We’re going to allow someone whose campaign platform was to “get Trump” to confiscate the wealth of someone who worked hard to build it and is one of those responsible for making the New York City skyline what it is long before this person even campaigned for office, simply confiscate a person’s property? I don’t.
We don’t live in Communist China or North Korea, at least not yet.
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