RE: I gather you disagree with them.
I don’t exactly disagree, but the question of whether it was worth seceding and dissolving the USA vs fighting a war to preserve it is a complex one.
The first question I need an answer to is this — Was there a referendum in each of the southern states asking citizens of these states if they really want to secede?
Ultimately, whether the Civil War was worth the cost is a matter of historical interpretation and individual values. Here are some additional factors to consider:
The Potential Spread of Slavery: Without the war, slavery might have continued to expand and become more entrenched in the South.
The Impact on Democracy: Allowing secession could have set a dangerous precedent, potentially leading to the fracturing of the nation along other lines in the future. The precedent set would have probably eventually created individual countries like the Republic of New Jersey or the Republic of Massachusetts, etc. depending on the prevailing popular sentiments.
I’m not sure that this is what the framers of our constitution had in mind for the United States of America.
I just want to find out if the Union we still call the United States of America is in danger of dissolving anytime soon. There are several people who think like you that I’ve encountered, even in FR.
My gut feeling is TODAY at least, despite the corruption and increasing intrusion of Washington DC on the affairs of the states, the sentiment for secession is not as strong as it was in the 1860s.
What I do believe is , like the peaceful division of Czechoslovakia or the near division of Spain and Catalonia, or the near secession of Quebec from Canada, the separation of ANY state in the union should be done via PEACEFUL and VOLUNTARY referendum instead of by force.
I think this was what the founders had in mind. The best evidence of that is the VOLUNTARY joining of each state to the union.
There was either a referendum as in the case of Virginia (and Tennessee IIRC?) or that was a statewide convention on the issue to which the people of the state elected representatives - which mirrors how they ratified the US Constitution in the first place. Either way, secession was done democratically in each state. It reflected the democratically expressed will of the people in each.
Ultimately, whether the Civil War was worth the cost is a matter of historical interpretation and individual values. Here are some additional factors to consider:
The Potential Spread of Slavery: Without the war, slavery might have continued to expand and become more entrenched in the South.
It wouldn't have spread as it was simply not economically viable in the arid West. Slavery was dying throughout the Western world at the time. It was still in the process of slowly dying in the North and was in the early stages of dying in the South as industrialization spread.
The Impact on Democracy: Allowing secession could have set a dangerous precedent, potentially leading to the fracturing of the nation along other lines in the future. The precedent set would have probably eventually created individual countries like the Republic of New Jersey or the Republic of Massachusetts, etc. depending on the prevailing popular sentiments.
Why was it any more dangerous than the 13 colonies seceding from the British Empire 80 years earlier? You say other states might have seceded in the future. My response is, the threat of secession would have restrained the federal government.....would have caused it to be less greedy, less rapacious and less out to screw certain states over to benefit others so as to avoid having more states secede. That would have been a very good thing. Lincoln in 1848 waxed poetic about secession when he was in the US House of Representatives and called it "a principle to liberate the world" for this reason.
I’m not sure that this is what the framers of our constitution had in mind for the United States of America.
Of course they did. There are statements from Thomas Jefferson and others in support of it. Notice how they did not prevent secession anywhere in the US Constitution. In the federalist papers, Madison said the union was voluntary and that each state was bound only by its own "voluntary act" (in ratifying the US Constitution). These people had just seceded from the British Empire 8 years earlier after all.
I just want to find out if the Union we still call the United States of America is in danger of dissolving anytime soon. There are several people who think like you that I’ve encountered, even in FR.
The biggest mistake the Southern states ever made IMO was entering into a union with New England. If New England and the Left Coast wanted to go their separate way, I'd celebrate.
My gut feeling is TODAY at least, despite the corruption and increasing intrusion of Washington DC on the affairs of the states, the sentiment for secession is not as strong as it was in the 1860s.
Not yet but we're getting there step by step.
What I do believe is , like the peaceful division of Czechoslovakia or the near division of Spain and Catalonia, or the near secession of Quebec from Canada, the separation of ANY state in the union should be done via PEACEFUL and VOLUNTARY referendum instead of by force.
Amen. Peaceful secession is exactly what the Southern states wanted and (rightfully) thought their right as sovereign states. If Vermont or Hawaii or Massachusetts, etc want to go, I'm all in favor of letting them go.
I think this was what the founders had in mind. The best evidence of that is the VOLUNTARY joining of each state to the union.
Bingo. There were no federal income taxes and no real federal army to speak of. Needless to say there were no federal agencies - just the post office. Look at the greedy, corrupt, oppressive monstrosity we have now.