Posted on 12/21/2001 5:11:00 AM PST by blam
What a load of crap! Romans were conquorers, not compromisors! It was Romes Gods and Romes way or you were dead! Jesus life is also surrounded by Old Testament prophacy. His story couldn't have been made up by a dictatorship in Rome. Even Caeser was mocked by Christ as well as faced Pilot who stated that he found no guilt with this man. Did the Roman set that up as well?
Misspellings and all, not meaning to embarass you, but you really should check your post before hitting the reply button.
The Romans were actually pretty tolerant of other religions, read history.
The so-called "New Testament" was written (mostly) about 100-140 years after the events described, by the Romans. For comparison, imagine having to write about the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral in 2001, imagine how much you'd have to fabricate--there are no living witnesses.
"Old Testament" Prophecy? Even people who are of the opinion that there was, indeed, a historical "Jesus" agree that he walked several miles to purchase a donkey that was suitable for riding into Jerusalem. This "Jesus" knew the "Old Testament" prophecy's as well.
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto Me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast the understanding.
5 Who determined the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof,
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Sure doesn't look like stars means angels in that scripture. Looks like they were called sons of God.
Seems like I read something about the "music" stars make, but I can't remember what it was. Do you know, blam?
Your reply in post# 16..."As planets "move" before the "fixed" stars?"
I would appear that this movement of the star is different from normal planetary movements, more like an extra-natural, or supernatural event.
"...there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem" Mat. 2:1
"Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him" Mat. 2:2
So the star was seen in the East, and they traveled to teh West to see the Child. Their first stop is in Jerusalem.
"When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. " Mat. 2:9,10
Now the star seems to have moved, until it stopped over the location of the Child. This star, and its susequent reappearance caused great joy to these men. The term "before them" connotates "in front of", or also, "in the lead of". It is interesting to note that Bethlehem is South of Jerusalem. So something about the star's movement had to make them turn South after having traveled East to Jerusalem, where they first met with Herod. From the Greek phrases "went before" and "and stood", we can see that the star was in motion in front of them and then came to a place where it stopped moving and remained still.
I'm not aware of stars, or planets, having such interesting movement. I hope that this reply addresses your question.
Merry Christmas!
Five hundred years before the birth of Christ, Daniel the prophet was taken captive to Babylon, he was evenutally such a hit there with the king that he was allowed into a very closed sect of astronomers in which no foreigner had ever been allowed to be a member of called the Magi, according to some accounts. Babylon was to the East and the Three Kings of the East being Magi would most likely have been from Babylon.
It makes me wonder if Daniel told them to look for an astronomical event that would mark the birth of Christ and maybe, perhaps, just guessing, God began to prepare for his Son a stake of Frankincense, Murr, and Gold, to tide him over in Egypt until he could return to Israel, that began to be collected for Jesus 500 years before he was born in the flesh.
In any case Jesus himself said in Luke 21:25 "There shall be signs in the sun and in the moon and in the stars; and upon the earth, distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring."
Looks like we are in for a universal shake up, where stars appear to fall, the earth reels to and fro on it's axis like a drunkard, someday man will really be living in interesting times.
Those Romans were clever ones weren't they! Nobody would suspect your theory: the Romans made sure of it, with a few centuries of brutal persecution upon their first thousands of converts to their made up religion. Man, they must have accumulated tons of aluminum foil in the process.
Yep. Which is why Herod had all the male children 2 and under killed. Being the king, it worried him a tad when the King Makers (magi) from the East showed up and asked "Where is he who has been born King of the Jews?"
Also, it's quite likely that, rather than a star, the "light" they followed was God's shekinah glory. Same thing that appeared as a pillar of fire by night when the Hebrews were wandering about in the desert, but probably not in pillar form.
The "music of the spheres"? Yep. That's what was believed for a long time, centuries ago.
Your statement is inaccurate. The compilation of the NT as a whole, as far as accepted cannonicity, was completed during the various councils, but the writing of the individual books was done well before the close of the first century.
So...do you accept the declarations of Plato and Aristotle as factual? Because, the MMS evidence for them is dated 1200 and 1400 years after their death and there are a total 7 and 49 MSS available for each, respectively.
The entire NT can be reconstructed from the writings of the Early Church fathers and this puts the earliest evidence at less than 50 years from original writing.
Codex Siniaticus and Codex Vaticanus can be dated to 350 AD and are the NT and OT complete.
By your lower textual criticism, if you reject the authenticity of the Biblical NT account, you must also reject ALL literature of antiquity, for there is more MSS evidence to substantiate the writings in the NT than there is for all the writings of the philosophers of antiquity combined. To date, there are over 25,000 MMS for the NT cataloged. Archeology keeps finding more and more MMS that have yet to be cataloged, but the evidence keeps mounting.
With all due respect sir, you speak out of ignorance. False statements and all, not meaning to embarass you, but you really should check your facts before hitting the reply button.
Wasn't Paul martyred in Rome?
Didn't the Romans also sack the Jewish temple in AD 70?
The NT was not written by "the Romans". Utter nonsense!
Matthew, John, James, Peter, Jude and the Author of Hebrews (most likely Barnabas...but we'll save that debate for another thread) were NOT Romans, except that they lived under the Roman dictatorship. They were JEWS! More specifically, according to modern terminology, they were Messianic Jews.
Please get your facts correct sir!
And, since you have obviously thought out your reply based upon your understanding of the Bible, I can assume, that as an intellegent individual, you have examined the Bible thoroughly, or at least have read it, prior to making such a bold claim. With that in mind, please tell us what you have found the main message of the Bible to be.
We await your thoughful reply.
I probably got it wrong. I've heard it three times and still can't remember it :-)
In the mythology of the planets Jupiter represents the son who is born to a father who intends to kill him at birth because prophecy states that said son will cause the downfall of the father. The Mother hides the infant at birth. The son matures in hiding and emerges to fullfill the prophecy. In this conjunction Mars represents war and aggression between the father and son. Since Saturn represents an old king and an establishment.
OK.
The conjunction would would most likely affect the nation where the culmination of the conjunction occurred by manifesting the mythology of the archetypes involved,(hence the wise men knowing where the baby king would be born and the circumstances of the fated childs birth.)
Although they did say that the conjunction appeared over the constellation (Pisces?) that represented Israel.
It is a well known fact among theologians that Christ's celebrated bithdate was chosen by the church to superimpose on the pagan midwinter holidays to assist in converting said pagans to christianity and to bring conquered nations under Roman control. If you can control a people's religion ....you can control a people.
I do remember the person being interviewed stating that Jesus' birth most likely occurred during Passover since Jewish men travelled to Jerusalem during Passover (?) thus explaining the fact that there was "no room at the inn."
To deny the historicity of Jesus is to deny the history of King Herod, Aristotle and Ghengis Khan. It's simply absurd.
All these Biblical stories have counterparts in religious myths going all the way back to the Assyrians and Caananites.
Which is an indication of their being "proto-truths" in comparison to the truths of divine revelation in the Bible.
Nonsense. Get off the internet and read a book or two.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.