[vannrox]

Found at METAFILTER
February 11, 2001

The Independent has a report that excavations at Herculaneum has brought forth some 850 papyri and "Among the works, which academics hope to read using the new equipment, are the lost works of Aristotle (his 30 dialogues, referred to by other authors, but lost in antiquity), scientific works by Archimedes, mathematical treatises by Euclid, philosophical work by Epicurus, masterpieces by the Greek poets Simonides and Alcaeus, erotic poems by Philodemus, lesbian erotic poetry by Sappho, the lost sections of Virgil's Juvenilia, comedies by Terence, tragedies by Seneca and works by the Roman poets Ennius, Accius, Catullus, Gallus, Macer and Varus." (posted by stbalbach at 8:58 AM PST (20 comments total))


Very cool! Just a note: the manuscripts themselves aren't new, they've been around since Herculaneum was excavated a long time ago--they just haven't been readable until now. I can't wait to hear more about this. (posted by rodii at 9:31 AM PST on February 11 )


Wow. This rocks on so many levels. Not the least of which being that the scrolls belonged to Julius Caesar's father-in-law. (posted by Optamystic at 9:59 AM PST on February 11)


A question: okay, so you've got these unreadable ancient texts lying around, right? And there are all these lost works of genius that are known to have existed but are thought not to exist any more? So you finally manage to find a way to uncover the details of these manuscripts and...hey! It's the lost work of all these great greeks! So is it the case that:
A: There just weren't that many amazing greek scholars
B: There were loads but most of them didn't carry into folk myth so we never hear about them.
C: There are loads of papyrus texts by scholars that have either not been read, are only vagualy readable or are just not "noteworthy" enough to get a mention.
(posted by davidgentle at 6:25 PM PST on February 11)


D: Only the big names made it into the press release, and there are dozens of Greek Danielle Steeles in the library that just aren't worth mentioning. (posted by rodii at 9:04 PM PST on February 11 )


If there were 1,200 scrolls, whoever was taking care of them at the time might very well have put together a catalog or inventory of some kind. This wouldn't have taken the form of a card catalog as that only came in with Napoleon but it might have been some sort of book/scroll. That said, while most of the manuscripts are illegible, it may be that parts of them are legible enough to make out the author or the work. Like anyone who's ever brushed up against Greek and Latin literature, I'm quite excited/hopeful about the news. I wonder if something from Petronius will turn up -- I always wanted a complete copy of the Satyricon plus whatever of his lyric poetry I could possibly get my hands on -- the poetry knocked me out when I first came across it as an undergrad. I'm sure others have their own wish-list. (posted by leo at 9:20 PM PST on February 11 )


Oh my. This is going to be huge, fascinating, and relevant even to modern times. Just reading the words "[Aristotle's] 30 dialogues, referred to by other authors, but lost in antiquity" is exciting to this old political theorist. People generally know that Aristotle was Plato's student, but if you're not familiar with Greek philosophy, you may now know that one of the big demarcations between them was that Plato was known for his dialogues - he didn't write prose - and Aristotle was known for his (usually terse) prose. People have written about this break for years, and speculated about whether the stylistic break went along with the intellectual break Aristotle made with his teacher or was a separate thing. And of course this is still quite relevant, in that many of the foundations of modern political and social thought can be directly drawn back to Aristotle, especially through the catholic interpretations of St Thomas Aquinas and many others, which presaged the enlightenment.

Of course the US constitution, still at issue, is an enlightenment document.
(posted by mikel at 9:46 PM PST on February 11)


mikel: there's also the division between Aristotle's "esoteric" and "exoteric" works: the more expansive texts that are believed to be authorised works, and the terser stuff that some people think is the equivalent of lecture notes. (Explaining the stylistic division, to some extent, though not the break from dialectic.) Now, if there's fuller versions of scrappy texts to be found, that's going to make a real difference.

(It's also worth noting that much of our knowledge of Greek philosophers and mathematicians comes from Arab scholars, who preserved Aristotle during the Dark Ages, even when they didn't appreciate much of what was being said. A nice contrast to modern conceptions of Islam.) posted by holgate at 10:51 AM PST on February 12

[Korth]

The Independent has a report that excavations at Herculaneum has brought forth some 850 papyri and "Among the works, which academics hope to read using the new equipment, are the lost works of Aristotle (his 30 dialogues, referred to by other authors, but lost in antiquity), scientific works by Archimedes, mathematical treatises by Euclid, philosophical work by Epicurus, masterpieces by the Greek poets Simonides and Alcaeus, erotic poems by Philodemus, lesbian erotic poetry by Sappho, the lost sections of Virgil's Juvenilia, comedies by Terence, tragedies by Seneca and works by the Roman poets Ennius, Accius, Catullus, Gallus, Macer and Varus." (posted by stbalbach at 8:58 AM PST (20 comments total))

Here is the entire article from the Independent.co.uk:

Digital device reads wealthy Roman's library of 'lost' classics

By David Keys, Archaeology Correspondent

11 February 2001

Hundreds of long-lost works of ancient Greek and Latin philosophy, science and literature - possibly including works by Aristotle, Archimedes and Seneca - are about to be rediscovered in what promises to be the most important re-emergence of classical literature and thought since the Renaissance.

American scientists have succeeded in developing a remarkable new high-tech system for reading previously illegible manuscripts. Using digital technology, academics from Brigham Young University near Salt Lake City, Utah, will "remaster" the lost wisdom of the ancients. Classical scholars believe the technology will open up the world's greatest surviving ancient works which have been illegible because of their poor state of preservation.

As many as 850 Greek and Latin philosophical and literary works were excavated from a 2,000-year-old Roman villa in the ancient city of Herculaneum near Naples by Italian antiquarians in the 18th century. Among the works, which academics hope to read using the new equipment, are the lost works of Aristotle (his 30 dialogues, referred to by other authors, but lost in antiquity), scientific works by Archimedes, mathematical treatises by Euclid, philosophical work by Epicurus, masterpieces by the Greek poets Simonides and Alcaeus, erotic poems by Philodemus, lesbian erotic poetry by Sappho, the lost sections of Virgil's Juvenilia, comedies by Terence, tragedies by Seneca and works by the Roman poets Ennius, Accius, Catullus, Gallus, Macer and Varus.

"The development of sophisticated digital technology for reading ancient manuscripts is the most important technological advance in the archaeological and historical world for several decades," said the Scandinavian classicist Professor Knut Kleve, one of the leading academics involved in reading the lost works.

The illegible texts all came from the library of a wealthy Roman politician and intellectual who was the father-in-law of Julius Caesar. For more than a century the library flourished as a major centre of Roman scholarship and intellectual achievement. But in the summer of AD 79 it was overwhelmed by the eruption of Mount Vesuvius and was buried under almost 100ft of volcanic debris.

Extraordinarily, although the volcanic catastrophe destroyed two cities and killed tens of thousands of people, it actually served to save the library for posterity. The searing heat charred the library's papyrus manuscripts, preserving them forever, albeit in a damaged state.

A small portion of the library - about 1,200 scrolls - was discovered during excavations in the mid 18th century, but until now most of the material has been largely unreadable because of the degree of fire damage and the fact that the layers of the papyrus rolls had stuck together.

The new high-tech digital reading system, developed by US academic Steven Booras, of Brigham Young University, means many more manuscripts will be readable for the first time.

Out of the 1,200 or so individual manuscripts only 800 have been unrolled, and 450 are so difficult to read that their contents have been little understood and their titles and authorship unknown.

[The Great Satan]

This rocks on so many levels.

I'll say. Western Civilization: ain't it grand?