Americans are from Mars, Europeans are from Venus

The Sunday Times ^ | February 2, 2003 | Robert Kagan

[MadIvan]

This is an interesting philosophical debate, but the "Europeans" happen to be wrong. Evil men understand nothing but brute force. And that is the beginning, the middle and the end of the discussion.

Regards, Ivan

[MadIvan]

Bump!

[Joe 6-pack]

Bump.

[Chi-townChief]

IMHO, if it wasn't for the American presence there, our Euro cousins would soon regress to the barbarism of the last century and be at each other's throats in no time.

[AngrySpud]

Americans are from Mars, Euroweenies are from Uranus (sorry, I couldn't resist).

[gcruse]

The EU is not held together by American forces., nor are we keeping Europe from internecine warfare. Where do you get this notion?

[Oztrich Boy]

Americans are from Mars, Europeans are from Venus,

"Oh, sure, give me the one with all the monsters." Homer

The Eww!ros seem to have forgotten that peace and tranquility is an aberration of the human condition and is unstable. It needs to be maintained.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..this is an interesting philosophical debate, but the "Europeans" happen to be wrong...

Not being a believer in collective guilt, I find that very hard to believe.

Matter of fact, I am wondering just what effect this endless procession of Euro bashing threads is having here. There must be plenty of European conservatives who could add their insights to our discussion on FR. Are they dissuaded, by the endless hatefest, of which you are sadly the principal promoter? I guess we'll never know, at least until this silly prejudice burns itself out.

[SauronOfMordor]

The EU is not held together by American forces., nor are we keeping Europe from internecine warfare. Where do you get this notion?

The Europeans understand that the US would not tolerate intra-Europe fighting, so they don't consider it an option in their conflicts with each other.

[MadIvan]

Matter of fact, I am wondering just what effect this endless procession of Euro bashing threads is having here. There must be plenty of European conservatives who could add their insights to our discussion on FR. Are they dissuaded, by the endless hatefest, of which you are sadly the principal promoter? I guess we'll never know, at least until this silly prejudice burns itself out.

Answer the following questions -

Is Chirac behaving atrociously, yes or no?

Is Schroeder behaving atrociously, yes or no?

Any reasonable person would say that Chirac, between trying to stab the Americans in the back, ruining the Ivory Coast, and inviting Comrade Bob to his country would have to say yes.

Schroeder using America-bashing in order to win elections is just as contemptible.

You can whinge and moan about how you'd like to silence me from saying so, but too bad - it won't work.

Ivan

[wizzler]

Provocative essay, no doubt.

But see this little thing -- © -- at the bottom of the text you pasted? Any notion that it might mean something? And any inclination you should honor it?

[KantianBurke]

The author is mis-interpreting Kant! In Kant's essay "P.P." his idea is analogous to the alliance the US is forming now against Iraq; free, democratic states with similar values acting in unison. NOT some bloated undemocratic club of dictators, thugs and shisters who only serve to perpetuate themselves.

[MadIvan]

But see this little thing -- © -- at the bottom of the text you pasted? Any notion that it might mean something? And any inclination you should honor it?

Well if there is a consensus it should be removed from the thread list, that's fine. But the Times generally does not mind things that fall under the fair use policy - and I doubt Mr. Kagan would mind his book being further publicised - which I was careful to do.

Ivan

[AntiGuv]

Count me in full agreement with your sentiments...

[wizzler]

But the Times generally does not mind things that fall under the fair use policy

That's odd, because is this is what I had heard the Times say about the matter:

Users may access content in The Times Online solely for their own personal, non-commercial use. Users may not otherwise download or copy, store in any medium (including any other website), distribute, transmit, re-transmit, modify or show in public any part of The Times Online without the prior written consent of Times Newspapers Limited.

[MadIvan]

I'm not making any money out of this. Nor is anyone else. Nor are the majority of the people here likely to be even able to purchase a Times Newspaper. No one has objected in the past. Why are you now? And who are you?

Ivan

[NeonKnight]

Hey, you included the credits...'nough said!

[Mr. Mojo]

Europeans insist they approach problems with greater nuance and sophistication. They try to influence others subtly and indirectly.

Nuance? Subtlety? Indirectly? This author desperately needs to read William Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..Is Chirac behaving atrociously, yes or no?...

Is Schroeder behaving atrociously, yes or no?

Yes, and yes. All I'm saying is, let's not tar all Europeans with the Chirac/Schroeder brush. Three years ago, would it have been fair to tar all Americans with the Clinton brush? Regards, By.

[wizzler]

It doesn't matter whether you're making any money from it. That's not the point. The reason copyright exists is to provide the copyright holder with the EXCLUSIVE right to reproduce and distribute the work at hand. You have infringed the Times' rights. And that IS the point.

I'm not trying to be an ass about this. It's just that a conservative forum is that last place I'd expect to see property rights be ignored or scoffed at.

Also, we should all have a selfish motive here: The more that content providers see their work being copied and published elsewhere on the Web, the less free -- in both senses of the word -- the Web will become. As readers, we don't want to see the day when news and publishing are not as easily accessible on the Internet. We've got it good now -- let's not screw it up by taking incentives away from content providers.