[MadIvan]

This is an interesting philosophical debate, but the "Europeans" happen to be wrong. Evil men understand nothing but brute force. And that is the beginning, the middle and the end of the discussion.

Regards, Ivan

[MadIvan]

Bump!

[Chi-townChief]

IMHO, if it wasn't for the American presence there, our Euro cousins would soon regress to the barbarism of the last century and be at each other's throats in no time.

[AngrySpud]

Americans are from Mars, Euroweenies are from Uranus (sorry, I couldn't resist).

[Oztrich Boy]

Americans are from Mars, Europeans are from Venus,

"Oh, sure, give me the one with all the monsters." Homer

The Eww!ros seem to have forgotten that peace and tranquility is an aberration of the human condition and is unstable. It needs to be maintained.

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..this is an interesting philosophical debate, but the "Europeans" happen to be wrong...

Not being a believer in collective guilt, I find that very hard to believe.

Matter of fact, I am wondering just what effect this endless procession of Euro bashing threads is having here. There must be plenty of European conservatives who could add their insights to our discussion on FR. Are they dissuaded, by the endless hatefest, of which you are sadly the principal promoter? I guess we'll never know, at least until this silly prejudice burns itself out.

[wizzler]

Provocative essay, no doubt.

But see this little thing -- © -- at the bottom of the text you pasted? Any notion that it might mean something? And any inclination you should honor it?

[KantianBurke]

The author is mis-interpreting Kant! In Kant's essay "P.P." his idea is analogous to the alliance the US is forming now against Iraq; free, democratic states with similar values acting in unison. NOT some bloated undemocratic club of dictators, thugs and shisters who only serve to perpetuate themselves.

[Mr. Mojo]

Europeans insist they approach problems with greater nuance and sophistication. They try to influence others subtly and indirectly.

Nuance? Subtlety? Indirectly? This author desperately needs to read William Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

[Mr. Mojo]

Nor can one simply lump French and Germans together: the first proud and independent but also surprisingly insecure....

Not suprising in the least. How can a country feel collectively secure if it has a history of surrendering at the drop of a hat?

[CatoRenasci]

The real core of the problem, of which the debate in the article is merely a symptom, is that the Europeans have come not to believe in the existence of evil. It's too unsophisticated for them, to religious, too Judeo/Christian. Even the Pope, who has by inaction allowed the Church institution itself to harbor pedophiles and so be an instrument of evil to many children, doesn't comprehend that a nation or group could be led by a man so evil that only force will solve the problem.

[Mr. Mojo]

One explanation of Europe’s greater tolerance for threats today is its relative weakness. A man armed only with a knife may decide that a bear prowling the forest is a tolerable danger, because hunting it with a knife is riskier than lying low and hoping it never attacks. The same man armed with a rifle, however, will likely make a different calculation.

The author makes an excellent analogy here.

[mikenola]

I think the Kantian utopian model holds great appeal, as an ultimate goal. However, the europeans have entirely failed in solving *any* of the crises of the 20th and 21st century that have arisen within their borders. Only Anglo-American resolve has been able to resolve them.

The europeans have *zero* moral credibiltity IMO. Until human nature changes, the American model will hold sway.

[Mr. Mojo]

American action, even if successful, would be an assault on Europe’s new ideals, a denial of their universal validity.

I believe the author means the "ideals" of Old Europe (Germany and France). Eight other European countries have in fact signed on to our policy of regime change in Iraq.

[eleni121]

Ah those Euros ---- so pacific. Every 50 years or so they launch a bloodbath and then spend another 30 years or so trying to forget, to lay blame, to psychoanalyze, in short to do everything except the sordid truth.

Well, Americans don't forget. We are the ones who have to clean up the Euro's messes!

[SarahW]

I did notice that the author seems to make one point I have been making over and over.

The Europeans (and democrats here at home) are worried more about American success in prosecution of a war in Iraq than failure, because that then means they are full of crap.

[Mr. Mojo]

Clinton administration finally turned to the use of military force and bombed Iraq in 1999, it did so without security council authorisation and with only Britain by its side.

Yet, not suprisingly, there were absolutely no cries of "unilateralism" by American Democrats.

[Mr. Mojo]

And the taming and integration of Germany is the great accomplishment of Europe — viewed historically, perhaps the greatest feat of international politics ever achieved.

The "taming and integration" of Germany is exclusively the accomplishment of the U.S. and Britain, not continental Europe.

[Guillermo]

It (Europe) is entering a post-historical paradise of peace

I knew I should have quit reading this bullsh*t right at this point.

[Mr. Mojo]

The general European critique of the American approach to “rogue” regimes is based on this special insight. Iraq, North Korea, Iran, Libya — these states may be dangerous and unpleasant, and even, if simplistic Americans insist, evil. But Germany was “evil” once, too. Might not an “indirect approach” work again, as it did in Europe?

Man, is this guy's head up his ass or what? The "indirect approach" did not work in Europe, as the author claims. We directly destroyed the Thrid Reich, then directly occupied "the Fatherland" for the next half century, and directly protected their impotent asses from the Soviet threat for that same period of time. The guy is as delusional as they come.

[Mr. Mojo]

This situation abounds in ironies. Europe’s rejection of power politics and its devaluing of military force as a tool of international relations have depended on the presence of American military forces on European soil. American power made it possible for Europeans to believe that power was no longer important.

And now, in the final irony, the fact that American military power has solved the European problem, especially the “German problem”, allows Europeans today, and Germans in particular, to believe that American military power, and the “strategic culture” that has created and sustained it, is outmoded and dangerous.

Most Europeans do not see or do not wish to see the great paradox: that their passage into “post-history” has depended on America not making the same passage. Because Europe has neither the will nor the ability to guard its own paradise and keep it from being overrun by a world that has yet to accept the rule of “moral consciousness”, it has become dependent on America’s willingness to use its own military might to deter or defeat those around the world who still believe in power politics.

I spoke too soon in that last post of mine. The author does indeed seem to get it.