Since when is right and wrong open to debate?

TownHall.com ^ | 8/20/03 | Armstrong Williams

[Woahhs]

My brother-in-law is a Baptist minister and there has been an ongoing battle in his church by a divorced man who wants to be a deacon. Apparently the scripture clearly states that divorcees can not hold that, or any higher position.

Apparently your brother-in-law has discovered he is the chief entertainment at a community social club.

[Rebelbase]

Homosexuality is a sin, no dout about it. So are a multitude of other actions. Sin is separation from God and short of grieving the Holy Spirit all sins are "equal"...no one is worse than the other in the eyes of God as they are all equally forgivable.

As a Christian it is my duty to help those who have fallen to rise above their sin and restore or accept their/a relationship with Christ. Before I can do that I have to have a relationship with the person who has fallen. I cannot establish a relationship with someone by driving them away from me with condemnation. I have to show the love of Christ to them and assure them that God will accept them as they are if they will accept Him. It is only then that God can begin the Holy work of cleasning their soul and allowing the conviction of the Holy Spirit to change thier lives.

[aruanan]

Since when is right and wrong open to debate?

It's not right and wrong that are open to debate. It's the definition of right and wrong that are open to debate. Too many ignore the distinction to their own peril.

[Woahhs]

QUOTE: "...even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; ... in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. ... beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Judge for yourself; which applies, your quote or mine?

[aruanan]

JESUS once ran into a person who tried to trip him up on the finer points of Old-Testament trivia...Immediatly sensing the direction of the conversation, CHRIST cut it off at the KNEES:

QUOTE: "I am come to give you a NEW law: love your neighbor as yourself!"

SOME of our 'neigbors' are GAY; JESUS never said it would be EASY.....

This is one of the most excellent examples I have ever seen of 1. trying to say something without actually coming out and saying it, 2. amphiboly, and 3. ignoring clear, definitive texts on the specific subject in order to attain the general objective of 1.

[AmericanInTokyo]

It's called "Satan and his crew at work".

And this was all predicted in detail a few thousand years ago.

[Woahhs]

Now that's a fine plan.

One problem though...when do you intend to bring up the not inconsequential matter of sin: when they elect a homosexual bishop?

[melsec]

I like your quote Dick.

You must also remeber that Jesus said that Not a jot or tittle of the law would change. That means that while we cannot agree with homosexuality and we can have not peace with people who would appoint gay Bishops etc. We must reach out with the love of Christ. To me, when I was an unrepentant sinner, the love of CHrist showed me my sin in it's fullness and then invited me to repent and receive His mercy- the greatest love of all is above all honest with us.

God Bless,

Mel

[Woahhs]

I meant when your "converts" elect a homosexual bishop, in case the point too fine.

[Hatteras]

"Since when is right and wrong open to debate?"

It's not a matter of what's right and wrong. It's a matter of 'perceived intent' dependant on one's affiliation to which political party. Silly question, sheesh...

[Rebelbase]

After they have accepted Christ.

[Woahhs]

Again, great plan...once you spring the fact you have misrepresented Christ to them, I'm sure their commitment will remain.

[Rebelbase]

You are discounting the power of the Holy Spirit.

[Woahhs]

You are misapprehending the character of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said he came to heal the sick, not those that think they are fine just the way they are.

[Woahhs]

Whether you acknowlege it or not, some are going to, indeed already have heard the Gospel, and reject it. It is no less a rejection to deny all the Gospel entails while claiming to embrace it. This guy got all the way to Bishop, what was the Holy Spirit doing with him?

[Rebelbase]

You are assuming that all homosexuals think they are fine with their chosen lifestyle and that is not the case.

Christ accepts a person who cries out to him and in that condition, Christ accepts him. To be in a situation to be accessible to that person so that Ican be there to help them, I first have to have a relationship based on love, not condemnation.

After they have accepted Christ then its time to talk to them about what they need to do to deal with their sin.

[Rebelbase]

Sorry, didn't see your 2nd post. The guy who is Bishop needs to be removed and busted back down to private.

[Woahhs]

Christ accepts a person who cries out to him and in that condition

And why would our hypothetical homosexual cry out to Christ in the first place?

[Woahhs]

The guy who is Bishop needs to be removed and busted back down to private.

Who is going to do that, the Holy Spirit? If the Holy Spirit were going to convict his heart, I should think He would have done it before the guy made bishop. Why does this example not invalidate your proposition?

[Teacher317]

As a Christian it is my duty to help those who have fallen to rise above their sin and restore or accept their/a relationship with Christ. Before I can do that I have to have a relationship with the person who has fallen.

Ah, but in this case, the sinner is asking you to accept the sins, embrace his homosexuality, ignore his divorce, and put his career goals ahead of Scripture. He has not said that he will not be homosexual, nor has he said that he is a sinner in need of forgiveness... he is saying that adherence to Scripture must be displaced so that he can get what he wants, and that he must be forgiven for breaking eternal commitments (his divorce). Exactly how does this qualify him to be a bishop, if Scripture takes a back seat to his personal aims, and he lives an example where ending eternal commitments... SACRAMENTAL rites... can be disregarded as an "oopsie".

Certainly, love the man as yourself. Certainly, forgive him his sins if he is repentant (although I've seen no evidence of it, I'll assume it is there). Certainly, do not shun him away frm God's Word... but... making him a BISHOP as a reward?!? There's forgiveness, and there's stupidity. This clearly falls into the latter category.