Posted on 04/09/2004 5:23:02 AM PDT by RaceBannon
The Bible does NOT teach that Jesus was Crucified on a Friday.
Jesus was Crucified on a Wednesday.
If you disagree, you must quote from my article, and then respond from the Bible proving your point.
No personal attacks just because you disagree, you need to reply with Scripture regarding why you think I am wrong, and why you think you are right.
Please excuse the formatting, the size of the article was too much to manually enter in HTML tags, so I did it in MSWORD, and it adds too many < P> !
LOL, you claim He rose on the Sabbath, ( the 4th day frm wednesday ) but the women rested on the Sabbath instead of preparing His Body, when it was permissable according to you to prepare the Body....makes no sense my friend.
Folks......can't you just hear it? listen....there it goes again..........
yeh yeh ya ya yahhh .......yah!
Was that our local papal mocking bird??????
>> “Luke absolutely tells us Jesus died on Friday and rose on Sunday.” <<
.
That is categorically false!
To count the days and nights one must read all of the accounts, for there are “preparation days” mentioned between his death and his resurrection. Those days have to be correctly placed to have the whole story from the gospels. He lay in the tomb through passover, through a non- sabbath day, through the regular sabbath, and arose at the end of the regular sabbath, and the “first day of the week” mentioned was havdalah right after sundown.
One must understand the worship prescribed by Yahova to understand the death and resurrection of Yeshua.
Until you have that understanding, you will continue to thrash as you do here, yet gain no knowledge.
Catholic tradition, or any other “Christian” tradition are of no relevence; they are just the “Mystery of Iniquity” as Paul noted to the Thessalonians.
what many people don’t realize ( including many on here apparently ) that Jews count any part of a day as one day ( same as a day and night )
it is amusing for anyone to claim a wednesday death and a saturday rising from the dead is anything other than rising on the 4th day, which violates a whole slew of verses.
wed 3:00pm is day one.
sundown starts the next day ( thursday day 2)
sundown starts the third day ( friday day 3 )
sundown starts the 4th day ( sabbath day 4 )
Jews did not count days in 24 hour periods.
if a baby was born 5 minutes before sundown on the 14th, it was born on the 14th!
I'll tell you what. We'll leave it to the lurkers to decide. I don't expect too much visible support on these posts from too many FReepers.....but I'm sure most will be able to see through the phony facade the Main Stream Church has always preached on this subject.
you two guys should hash it out - one says Jesus rose on the sabbath and the other says the first day of the week.
i’ll stand by and lurk
I have elaborated many times.
Yeshua stated that it would be exactly as it was for Jonah.
Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, and yeshua was three days and three nights in the tomb. He arose on the fourth night, which was the “first day of the week” (havdalah).
maybe you wouldn’t mind sharing how many books you accept as Scripture in the NT and how did you come to this decision?
the end of the sabbath is the first day of the week!
It happens at night.
>> “what many people don’t realize ( including many on here apparently ) that Jews count any part of a day as one day ( same as a day and night )” <<
.
What you’re missing is that the “Jews” that count days like that are Pharisees, and according to Yeshua Pharisees are not his people; they are not the elect, they are of their father the Devil.
If you count their word above Yeshua’s word, are you one with them?
That would explain your bizzare utterances here.
I don't really know why I'm doing this because so much (it seems) escapes you. But......I'll oblige.
For years (50 at least) I believed as our friend "Editor" did, that the resurrection occurred late on Sabbath because I was attempting to fit the chronology of 3 days and 3 nights into the time spent in the tomb. It was certain that the crucifixion did not occur on Friday for a number of reasons. There is only a day and a half using the Main Stream chronology (Friday P.M./Sunday A.M); Passover (the 14th) can occur on a Friday (never on Thursday) but the scriptures plainly indicate a day in between TWO Sabbaths. This fact....alone, eliminates a Friday crucifixion. In addition....modern theology and history has now agreed that the year was 30 A.D. Any Hebrew calendar you wish to consult will show Passover beginning on Tuesday sundown (the 13th) and completing at Wednesday sundown the 14th. He was placed in the tomb shortly before the Passover sunset just as the First Sabbath [John 19:31] of Unleavened was beginning.
Scripture also says (very plainly) that the women arrive at the tomb Sabbath (Saturday) morning. The Greek word is SABBATWN (σαββάτων). σαββάτων does not mean "week". It refers to an appointed time [Leviticus 23:4].....a special Sabbath, a Mo'ed, i.e. [John 19:31]The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
When the women arrive (according to the inspired Greek) He is already risen....so it obviously cannot be Sunday morning and it obviously cannot be Saturday night. But what about the prophecy of [Matthew 12:40]?
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Would someone like to tell me where this says the "Heart of the Earth" is the tomb?
It was obvious to me that the "Heart of the Earth" ended at the resurrection...........so what was it that occurred 72 hours (3 days and nights) earlier? EUREKA! The mock trial before Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin where Yeshua first experienced mistreatment and physical harm from mankind. It occurred early before sunrise on Passover, the 14th. This is where He began to bleed innocent blood....before the Sanhedrin [Matthew 26:65-68][Mark 14:63-65][Luke 22:63-65] and [John 18:22-24].
And the gospel of Luke confirms the beginning point of the "Heart of the Earth".....early Passover morning, the 14th.
[Luke 24:17-21] 17And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad? 18And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days? 19And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 20And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. 21But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since "these things" were done.
Later that day the Apostles were together at the Upper Room and the Greek still confirms it to be Saturday":
[John 20:19] ¶ Οὔσης while being (gen) οὖν therefore/then ὀψίας late ([Adj] acc, gen) , τῇ the (dat) ἡμέρᾳ day (dat) ἐκείνῃ from that place (dat) τῇ the (dat) μιᾷ one (dat) { τῶν the (gen) σαββάτων sabbaths (gen) ♦ σαββάτων sabbaths (gen) } , καὶ and/also τῶν the (gen) θυρῶν gates (gen) κεκλεισμένων having-been-SHUT-ed (gen) ὅπου where ἦσαν they-were οἱ the (nom) μαθηταὶ disciples (nom|voc); he/she/it-should-be-LEARN-ed { συνηγμένοι having-been-GATHER TOGETHER-ed (nom|voc) ♦ - } , διὰ through (+acc), because of (+gen) τὸν the (acc) φόβον fear (acc) τῶν the (gen) Ἰουδαίων Jewish ([Adj] gen) , ἦλθεν he/she/it-COME-ed ὁ the (nom) Ἰησοῦς Jeshua (nom) καὶ and/also ἔστη he/she/it-CAUSE-ed-TO-STAND εἰς into (+acc) τὸ the (nom|acc) μέσον middle ([Adj] acc, nom|acc|voc) , καὶ and/also λέγει he/she/it-is-SAY/TELL-ing, you(sg)-are-being-SAY/TELL-ed (classical) αὐτοῖς them/same (dat) , Εἰρήνη peace (nom|voc) ὑμῖν you(pl) (dat) .
Here is Young's Literal Translation of that definitive passage:
[John 20:19]19It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having been shut where the disciples were assembled, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith to them, ‘Peace to you;’
Evening to the Hebrews was anytime between noon and sunset........not night time. This places the resurrection earlier on that same day and we know that the women arrived before sunrise of that same day.......the First of the Sabbaths between Passover and Pentecost [Leviticus 23:15-16].
“first of the sabbaths” means the first day of the week.
may i ask you what version of the Bible you use?
btw- the Scripture says very plainly the women rested on the seventh day sabbath ( Luke 23:56 ) and then came to the empty tomb on the first day of the week ( Luke 24:1 )
again, what Bible do you use?
I consult many different versions....the King James, the Douway, the Septuagint, the Vulgate, the Revised Standard version and Young's Literal Translation for the most part. But....my final arbiter is the Hebrew and the Greek language from the early manuscripts.
This is how we know that "First of the Sabbaths" does not mean....."First day of the week". If you were to write that in the Greek....it would be "PROTO HEMERA TES EBDOMADOS"....."First day of the week". Instead we find all of the gospels (referring to that phrase) as saying....MIA TWN SABBATWN (μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων).
σάββατον is the Greek word for the weekly Sabbath....but it is not the word used in the pertinent resurrection gospels. That word is σαββάτων. σαββάτων is plural and designates a "Special Sabbath" such as Unleavened (2) and Tabernacles (2), as well as the seven counted Sabbaths between Pesach and Shavout. σάββατον refers to the normal weekly Sabbath (singular).
You find μια των σαββατων written in scripture (New Testament) in [Matthew 28:1][Mark 16:2][Luke 24:1][John 20:1][John 20:19][Acts 20:7] and [I Corinthians 16:2]. All these passages refer to the seven counted Sabbaths of the OMER [Leviticus 23:15-16]. That's why it is written in the plural.
The plural for σάββατον is not σαββάτων. It is σάββατα [Acts 17:2] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Paul speaks here about going into the synagogue on three (ordinary/weekly) Sabbaths.
Here's the Greek: 2κατὰ down/according to/as per (+acc), against (+gen) δὲ But also τὸ the (nom|acc) εἰωθὸς having MAKE-ed-CUSTOMARY (nom|acc|voc, voc) τῷ the (dat) Παύλῳ Paul (dat) εἰσῆλθεν he/she/it-ENTER-ed πρὸς toward (+acc,+gen,+dat) αὐτούς them/same (acc) , καὶ and/also ἐπὶ upon/over (+acc,+gen,+dat) σάββατα sabbaths (nom|acc|voc) τρία three (nom|acc) διελέξατο he/she/it-was-DELIBERATE-ed αὐτοῖς them/same (dat) ἀπὸ away from (+gen) τῶν the (gen) γραφῶν writings (gen); while WRITE-ing (nom) ,
[Mark 16:2]2 Καὶ and/also λίαν very πρωῒ early { τῆς the (gen) μιᾶς one (gen) ♦ τῇ the (dat) μιᾷ one (dat) τῶν the (gen) } σαββάτων sabbaths (gen) ἔρχονται they-are-being-COME-ed ἐπὶ upon/over (+acc,+gen,+dat) τὸ the (nom|acc) μνημεῖον tomb (nom|acc|voc) , ἀνατείλαντος upon TO RISE-ing (gen) τοῦ the (gen) ἡλίου Elijah (gen); sun (gen) .
If we were instructed to count seven Sabbaths after Passover [Leviticus 23:15] then μια των σαββατων is indeed the first of those Sabbaths that the Apostles and authors of New Testament scripture were counting. And....we would expect to find this only after Passover....and no where else. He was executed (crucified) just before the annual Sabbath [Leviticus 23:6] and the resurrection happened on that "First" Sabbath in the count of the Omer, μια των σαββατων.
We are told in [I Corinthians 16:2-8] that Pentecost (Shavuot) is just around the corner. In [Acts 20:6] we are informed that Paul had just observed the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Both passages utilize the phrase in the Greek..... μια των σαββατων to describe the events. In both cases they were counting the "First of the Sabbaths" to Pentecost.
If this phrase meant "First day of the week" as modern Christianity insists.....then we should find no relationship at all to the "Feast of Weeks" (Passover to Pentecost).....but we always do. The fact that this phrase is always used in conjunction with Passover/Pentecost, and is indeed a key in understanding the correct chronology of Passion Week....and solves many past arguments and timing problems that have arisen regarding the crucifixion and death of Yeshua.
The reason this has taken so long to surface (a question I'm asked about frequently) is simply because neither the Jews or the Church had any interest in pursuing a Sabbath resurrection....and they both conspired against the idea. If that had ever came to light it would have united Torah and the Resurrection into one common denominator......and both factions hoped that idea would never see the light of day. It hasn't to any great degree, even now in the 21st century.....2000 years after the fact.
btw- the Scripture says very plainly the women rested on the seventh day sabbath ( Luke 23:56 ) and then came to the empty tomb on the first day of the week ( Luke 24:1 )
Sorry......that's incorrect. Let's look at the Greek:
[Luke 23:56] Ὑποστρέψασαι upon RETURN-ing (nom|voc) δὲ But also ἡτοίμασαν they-READY-ed ἀρώματα aromatics (nom|acc|voc) καὶ and/also μύρα ointments (nom|acc|voc); Myra (nom|acc|voc) . Καὶ and/also τὸ the (nom|acc) μὲν indeed σάββατον sabbath (nom|acc|voc) ἡσύχασαν they-QUIET-IZE-ed, upon QUIET-IZE-ing (nom|acc|voc) κατὰ down/according to/as per (+acc), against (+gen) τὴν the (acc) ἐντολήν precept (acc) .
Notice the sabbath they are resting on is the weekly Sabbath (σάββατον)...........but look at what your next passage calls it:
[Luke 24:1] Τῇ the (dat) δὲ But also μιᾷ one (dat) τῶν the (gen) σαββάτων sabbaths (gen) , ὄρθρου dawn (gen) { βαθέος deep ([Adj] gen) , ἦλθον I-COME-ed, they-COME-ed ἐπὶ upon/over (+acc,+gen,+dat) τὸ the (nom|acc) μνῆμα tomb (nom|acc|voc) ♦ βαθέως ???; deep ([Adj] gen) ἐπὶ upon/over (+acc,+gen,+dat) τὸ the (nom|acc) μνῆμα tomb (nom|acc|voc) ἦλθον I-COME-ed, they-COME-ed } , φέρουσαι while BRING-ing (nom|voc) ἃ who/whom/which (nom|acc) ἡτοίμασαν they-READY-ed ἀρώματα aromatics (nom|acc|voc) , { καί and/also τινες some/any (nom) σὺν together with/including (+dat) αὐταῖς them/same (dat) ♦ - } .
Here is Young's Literal translation for both of those passages:
[Luke 23:56]and having turned back, they made ready spices and ointments, and on the sabbath, indeed, they rested, according to the command.
[Luke 24:1]And on the first of the sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready, and certain [others] with them,
[Luke 24:1] is occurring about 12 hours after they began to rest in [Luke 23:56]....after spending all day preparing the spices that they had purchased after the High Sabbath (σαββάτων) of [Mark 16:1]. They prepared them on the non Sabbath day between the two. And.....[Mark 16:2] brings us again to the Saturday morning resurrection:
Young's Literal: and early in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, they come unto the sepulchre, at the rising of the sun,
Now.....let's consult an expert on the meaning of the phrase....."First of the Sabbaths":
Seven sabbaths were to be counted from the Feast of First-fruits or Passover. Consequently, these came to be known as "First Sabbath," "Second Sabbath" etc., down to the seventh. And according to Julian Morgenstern, former President of Hebrew University, this practice continued in Galilee till the time of Christ or the Common Era. It is still observed by some groups in Palestine today. Thus, there was an annual date known as "First Sabbath," just after Passover. (page 230, The Life of Christ in Stereo)
The scripture reference for this, of course....is [Leviticus 23:15-16]
Easter is coming!
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