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A World Without Luther
Then Face to Face ^ | October 31, 2008 | Bryan Veloso.

Posted on 10/31/2008 8:15:05 AM PDT by Gamecock

Philosophers talk about possible worlds… a way the real world could have been. So let’s imagine, for a moment, that Luther had never been born. Or perhaps that he had never converted to the Augustinian order. Or that he had never had the courage to pound the 95 theses to the Church at Wittenberg. What would have become of the Reformation?

We know that there were other elements in the Catholic Church that likely would have pressed for Reformation, so Luther wasn’t the only motivating force. But imagine with me… no Luther. How many would still be under the spell of the Catholic Church? Would you believe that one of the main reasons Paul wrote Romans was to declare the saving power of baptism? Or that Christ purchased for you the opportunity to obtain increasing justification via sacraments?

Perhaps you’ve never been a part of the Catholic Church. Growing up as a young Catholic boy, I never understood salvation apart from the Church. To my understanding, salvation involved the sacraments. Being justified meant more then proving faith via works… it meant coming back to mass every weekend. It meant being baptized in a Catholic Church. It meant partaking of the Eucharist. That an alien righteousness could be imparted to me… that was nowhere near my young mind. This was a righteousness enabled by Christ, yes… but for me to complete with my works.

Enter Luther:

In… 1519, I had begun interpreting the Psalms once again. I felt confident that I was now more experienced, since I had dealt in university courses with St. Paul’s Letters to the Romans, to the Galatians, and the Letter to the Hebrews. I had conceived a burning desire to understand what Paul meant in his Letter to the Romans, but thus far there had stood in my way, not the cold blood around my heart, but that one word which is in chapter one: “The justice of God is revealed in it.” I hated that word, “justice of God,” which, by the use and custom of all my teachers, I had been taught to understand philosophically as referring to formal or active justice, as they call it, i.e., that justice by which God is just and by which he punishes sinners and the unjust.

But I… felt that before God I was a sinner with an extremely troubled conscience. I couldn’t be sure that God was appeased by my satisfaction. I did not love, no, rather I hated the just God who punishes sinners. In silence, if I did not blaspheme, then certainly I grumbled vehemently and got angry at God. I said, “Isn’t it enough that we miserable sinners, lost for all eternity because of original sin, are oppressed by every kind of calamity through the Ten Commandments? Why does God heap sorrow upon sorrow through the Gospel and through the Gospel threaten us with his justice and his wrath?” This was how I was raging with wild and disturbed conscience. I constantly badgered St. Paul about that spot in Romans 1 and anxiously wanted to know what he meant.

I meditated night and day on those words until at last, by the mercy of God, I paid attention to their context: “The justice of God is revealed in it, as it is written: ‘The just person lives by faith.’” I began to understand that in this verse the justice of God is that by which the just person lives by a gift of God, that is by faith. I began to understand that this verse means that the justice of God is revealed through the Gospel, but it is a passive justice, i.e. that by which the merciful God justifies us by faith, as it is written: “The just person lives by faith.” All at once I felt that I had been born again and entered into paradise itself through open gates. Immediately I saw the whole of Scripture in a different light. I ran through the Scriptures from memory and found that other terms had analogous meanings, e.g., the work of God, that is, what God works in us; the power of God, by which he makes us powerful; the wisdom of God, by which he makes us wise; the strength of God, the salvation of God, the glory of God.

From 1519 until 1998 is a long time, but the message that God unleashed in Luther’s pen reached my ears through the preaching of an Australian pastor. That alien righteousness became mine through faith, and I was secure in it as I was the moment God named me in eternity past. What joy swells up inside me… tearful joy… as I write this. No words can properly express it.

So tonight, when my friends and I gather in my living room to read Romans, sing A Mighty Fortress is Our God, and reflect on the life of Martin Luther, we’ll be doing so not chiefly out of a heart of revelry or camaraderie. Rather, it will be out of gratitude to God for Luther… who pointed us all towards Christ.

Sola fide. Always.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; History; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: reformationday
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To: GoLightly

***Are you saying that Protestant man creates God in his own image?

Seems like that, doesn’t it? If you’d like an honest answer, I’ll be happy to try to provide one.***

If you would...


41 posted on 11/02/2008 6:34:52 AM PST by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
We don't expect everyone to have perfect understanding. Human nature has all of us looking through the glass darkly. Your church talks about gaining understanding about God as something that is always ongoing. As better understanding unfolds, it is due to the work of the Holy Spirit & the Holy Spirit protects your church from error. Even your church refuses to say that it currently has all of the Truth at this very moment. It has all of the Truth that has been revealed to it. By the time that all filters down to your church's portion of the Body that's sitting in the pews, you'll find as much diversity of thought & understanding as you will find in the entire Body of the invisible Church.

The Holy Spirit works on all individuals within the Body & none of us pretend to have all of the answers. We see those who try to pretend that they do have all of the answers for what they are, pretenders to the Throne of God.

If someone throws an idea or belief at you, you'll test it against the teachings of your church. You might find your church silent about it or you may find that your church has a teaching about it, but whether or not you understand that teaching & embrace it depends on the work of the Holy Spirit.

Protties do similar testing, but we use the Bible as our guide instead of any body of men. We come to recognize the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives, just as you do. I know it looks like we're all wandering around with no connectivity, because we do, we are. We're waiting for the return of Jesus Christ, to finally straighten out all of the messes of our making, because we know we can't do it without Him. The teaching about the Tower of Babel is pretty clear from where I'm sitting.

42 posted on 11/02/2008 10:33:59 AM PST by GoLightly
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To: GoLightly

***We don’t expect everyone to have perfect understanding.***

Could you further define ‘we’ used in this context please?

*** Your church talks about gaining understanding about God as something that is always ongoing. As better understanding unfolds, it is due to the work of the Holy Spirit & the Holy Spirit protects your church from error. Even your church refuses to say that it currently has all of the Truth at this very moment. It has all of the Truth that has been revealed to it.***

Do you have the Truth of God not revealed? I’m not getting your point.

***By the time that all filters down to your church’s portion of the Body that’s sitting in the pews, you’ll find as much diversity of thought & understanding as you will find in the entire Body of the invisible Church.***

Individual men can be and very often are in error. That is why Scripture tells us to defer to the Church - the foundation and pillar of Truth. Even the great St. Augustine wandered off into heresy. There is one Truth from the Holy Spirit.

***The Holy Spirit works on all individuals within the Body & none of us pretend to have all of the answers. We see those who try to pretend that they do have all of the answers for what they are, pretenders to the Throne of God.***

There are a bunch of them on the airwaves, agreed.

***If someone throws an idea or belief at you, you’ll test it against the teachings of your church. You might find your church silent about it or you may find that your church has a teaching about it, but whether or not you understand that teaching & embrace it depends on the work of the Holy Spirit.***

Umm, it’s not my church. I belong to it; it does not belong to me. The extent of understanding does depend on the guidance of the Holy Spirit, agreed. But not the deference to Church teaching.

***Protties do similar testing, but we use the Bible as our guide instead of any body of men.***

Why? The Bible itself proscribes personal interpretation. Remember that Jesus did not leave any written words. The only record that we have that mentions Him writing is in the dust.

Jesus taught extensively; He created His Church and appointed Peter as the steward (the keys confirm it). We are to hear and defer to the Church, not personal interpretation of Scripture.

*** know it looks like we’re all wandering around with no connectivity, because we do, we are. We’re waiting for the return of Jesus Christ, to finally straighten out all of the messes of our making, because we know we can’t do it without Him. The teaching about the Tower of Babel is pretty clear from where I’m sitting.***

Thank you for your statements; they are clear. I disagree with many of them of course; your statement about Babel is poignant and fitting. We would say that the Reformation created the many beliefs (instead of tongues); yet the creation of Jesus Christ still stands amidst the chaos of the Reformation that still continues to this day.

Much appreciated and thank you for a clear explanation.


43 posted on 11/02/2008 2:27:48 PM PST by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: vladimir998
Had there not been disobedience, there would not be so much chaos.

Presidents? Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit.

44 posted on 11/02/2008 2:38:12 PM PST by SaltyJoe (Pro Life from conception to natural death)
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To: wintertime

Exactly what is your grievence with indulgences?


45 posted on 11/02/2008 2:38:39 PM PST by papertyger
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To: papertyger
Exactly what is your grievence with indulgences?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have a problem with the **selling** of indulgences. Luther did too. He was right.

46 posted on 11/02/2008 5:44:07 PM PST by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: wintertime

Exactly what do you think “selling indulgences” entailed?


47 posted on 11/03/2008 4:34:12 AM PST by papertyger
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