Lutheran (EL
* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.
Posted on 11/11/2009 2:09:55 PM PST by SmithL
The second-largest Lutheran congregation in Minnesota has decided that it is not going to wait any longer to withdraw from the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) over the denomination's August vote to permit gay preachers.
In his November newsletter to the members of Hosanna Lutheran Church in Lakeville, the Rev. Bill Bohline said that the church is going to scrap its original plan to wait six to eight months . . .
(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...
ELCA Exodus
Here is one of the great advantages of following the model of the independent congregations as they were in the first century. When a group does something as unbiblical as honoring homosexuality, the local church can simply turn its back and say “Anathema”.
But, the gigantic machinery tendency we protesters inherited from the Roman cult has been a siren song that too many have been unable to resist. Time for all congregations to return to our roots: small independent assemblies with local responsibility and authority, committed to the teaching of the Apostles and writers of the Scriptures as Christ directed.
Leave the popes and dopes to the Vatican with its aberant theology, superstitious sacraments and darkened eyes.
I'd like to be first in line to buy popcorn to watch your final appraisal and disposition. LOL
* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.
ELCA hymn: Chasing Out the Sheathes
With 6,084 members, Hosanna is the largest of all ELCA churches in operating budget at $6.9 million.
Its pastor wrote to the St. Paul area bishop shortly after the convention:
". . .We strongly disagree with the decisions made.
We do not feel that the actions taken represent the beliefs and desires of the majority of the ELCA, but rather a small fraction of the denomination, politically well organized and driven by personal agenda. We feel these actions are biblically indefensible. Now, we are forced to deal with the aftermath. Many are asking "when are we leaving the ELCA?" Part of my response has been "they have left us." It feels like we have been abandoned. But we are not alone.
. . .
Finally, I need to tell you that we are going to suspend immediately all financial support to the Saint Paul Area Synod and the ELCA. Our giving beyond Hosanna! will remain strong, but we cannot give our benevolence dollars to a denomination that has moved in a direction so contrary to some of our core beliefs."
Fargo, ND (WDAY TV) - One of the metro's largest Lutheran churches is going against the ELCA. It comes after the group decided to allow gay pastors in relationships to lead congregations.
First Lutheran Church in Fargo says they are withholding money from the national ELCA office and that they won't participate in the ordination and calling of pastors in same-gender relationships.
Nearly 53-hundred people are members at First Lutheran. Leaders say they are still affiliated with the ELCA, but are considering affiliating with other groups or synods. For now, there has not been a decision to leave.
God will bless this congregation for leaving the ELCA. I have nothing but sympathy for the lost sheep that remain in the ELCA.
I had the same thought. Good for them!
The radical leftists who want to rewrite Scripture to their whims will end up controling empty dead churches.
Good for them to leave!
As for Rome, I don’t see Papa Benedict condoning this garbage.
I agree. They are acting in a Christian manner.
Maybe we should leave Rome out of this. It's a Lutheran church that's making everyone proud.
With Paul, you will find me saying that I am grateful to be found not having a righteousness of my own, but clothed in the righteousness of His Son. The only righteousness that will pass for holiness. And you...?
Aren’t individual congregations also at risk for going astray with leaders who may err gravely about Christian teachings? Who is the pastor accountable to, if not some other pastors or higher-ups who can talk sense to him?
A friend of mine had a pastor who side-stepped important and difficult questions in Scripture and, through intellectual shallowness, sought to say that the hard questions didn’t matter, and that it was “all good”. He couldn’t understand the objections and there was no other clergy or structure to appeal to. She gave up and left the congregation. And that was an easy case. The Jim Jones types and other people who become cult leaders are able to do what they do because of no structure and no accountability.
I’m not saying a large, cohesive structure like Roman Catholicism is ideal and trouble-free, but it’s really easy to see how the independent churches could run amuck, as well, and that is worth acknowledging.
“Whenever two or more are gathered in His name” God is there. That’s not just because he’s invited. It’s because we stand in need of His help, whenever we get together, lest we flounder, as purely human institutions do.
Also, I hope people of faith in this thread can “speak the truth in love”, and not call people names.
Those are reasonable questions. The first century churches described in the epistles of the NT had “elders” rather than a “pastor”. There is a reference to a “pastor-teacher”, but if read carefully, this is about one of the elders that happened to be gifted at teaching.
The concept of the single leader “Jim Jones” mentality is precisely where the Catholic church is, a monstrosity with its one “Vicar of Christ”, a replacement for Jesus on earth. He is claimed to be infallible when speaking ex cathedra and is revered as a god.
The multiple leader local congregation allows for the men leading it to watch each other, equal in authority, with varying responsibilities. When one of their own, or another from a sister congregation leaves sound teaching or behaves like ECLA, those with eyes to see simply exclude him (them) from fellowship. As Paul wrote in II Cor., the hope is that they see the problem, listen to the admonition, and return. If not, let them go.
It is theoretically possible for anyone to stray. I say “theoretically” because the Scriptures teach that God is managing His Body on earth. There are no random events and no sudden, unexpected conquerings by Satan. The success or failure of the congregations are precisely where God moves them. Including raising the abberant Roman cult.
I hope you don't mind me jumping in as well. I think church structure has led to more flawed doctrine then anything else.
The other point that often gets lost is the clergy in the pre-hierarchy church were not elevated. Thus it was a lot harder to create new doctrine out of thin air because the congregation felt empowered to question it.
The congregational structure does make it easier for a smooth talking, charismatic type personality to introduce error, but this same structure makes it hard for error to spread because as the error is introduced farther away from the source (the charismatic person) the more the congregation feels strong in rebuking it.
The hierarchy structure makes it more difficult to introduce error since it is the leader at the top that makes all the decisions. However, once that leader is compromised there is nothing to stop that error from becoming doctrine because the congregation is submissive to the leader.
Been Catholic all my life. Never met a Pope worshipper. Never said a prayer glorifying the Pope, in or outside of a Mass. I heard of one person who had a poster of JPII. And a lot of people admire him greatly. That would put him in the same league with people’s favorite NASCAR driver or baseball player. But nobody prays to the Pope. Prayers are said in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
As to the statements ex cathedra, well, they don’t come as spontaneous utterances. They are statements of belief that come after thinking, praying, studying and discussing. The same as a prudent CEO would do. You can say they are incorrect, or question whether the pope has the authority to say them, but they do not suggest that the pope is worshipped.
You seem to have some really bitter and deep disagreements with Catholicism. I think, if you really want to rid the earth of the scourge of misdirected religion, you could gently pray for those against whom you are bitter. If you would really like for Catholics to move in the direction of Truth, ask the Holy Spirit to help us come closer to Him.
You may wish to reconsider the verbiage you choose when you post. Reading another person's mind is against the rules here.
I am not at all bitter about anything. Quite the opposite. I am very grateful that God has rescued me, not due to affiliation with an organization or because of deeds I have done. Not even because I ginned up enough faith to turn to Him, but because, as Paul wrote, He chose me before the foundation of the earth. This is something rejected by the Catholic Church and as such reveals a part of their defective theology. Pointing out truth is our only motive.
It is curious that you dismiss the worship of humans as a part of the Catholic paradigm, but when the discussion turns to praying to Mary, or other "Saints", there is quite a contingent here at FR ready to go to the mat for her. Speaking to any human after their physical life has ended is prayer. If it walks like a duck...
And Mary, because she is considered a Co-Redemptrix in Rome, is a particularly troubling figure to believers in Jesus Christ. We repudiate such adoration or reverence as heretical and blasphemous. And, clearly, it is not supported by Scripture, but is more of the errant human tradition of the Vatican.
We only wish to hold up the light of Jesus, alone, and call to those trapped in the chains of Rome, come out, if you can.
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