OU Professor Says Ancient Text Reveals Startling Information About Magi, Star of Bethlehem

News Oklahoma ^ | 12/25/10 | Carla Hinton

[Cronos]

There is ZERO linguistic, genetic, or anthropological evidence to support such a claim. I'll make a guess and posit that, in the intervening years as people have discovered this, the claim will have been modified to say, well, yes, they were here, but they were since replaced without a trace by those we now call the American Indian.

good points aruanan, will add:

1. Correct -- no linguistic evidence -- none of the Amerindian tribal languages have any of the contours or nuances of Semitic languages
2. Genetic -- none of the native Americans have any of the distinctive Jewish Haplogroups -- in contrast Jews that lived in India for 2500+ years still retained those genetic markers, as did a tribe in East Africa that had long forgotten much of it's judaism, just kept a few practises. There are no Jewish/Israelite genetic markers among the native Americans
3. Anthropological -- as noted above, there was an East AFrican tribe that still retained some traces of Israelite practise distinctive enough from it's neighbours. In contrast, amongst the native Americans, none had any distinctive related-to-Jewish practises, none, not one.
4. Even if they say that these "semites" were 'replaced' by Amerindians, there should be SOME Archaeological proof for this period, right? Semites of 700 BC had a distinctive and "higher" culture than the USA-based Amerindians and it was completely distinctive from Mayans and Central Americans. They had different "technologies" -- the wheel for example, they had different methods of using structures that were common in the old world and unknown in the new world. And there is none of this found in pre-Columbine America
5. There should still be "historical" traces -- stories passed down in Amerindian tribes that they replaced earlier inhabitants. Even the Irish have this in their myths, yet no trace of this in Amerindian tales
6. There would still be some genetic proof -- you'd expact a stray person to marry into a native American tribe, yet there is none

Finally, how would the Mormon group explain to the native Americans they've been telling "you're descended from Lamanites or Nephites" to "sorry, your ancestors replaced Lamanites and Nephites" -- ouch...

[Cronos]

From the article "Landau said the eighth-century manuscript had been in the Vatican Library for many years, but no one had translated it into English. Syriac is a literary language based on an eastern Aramaic dialect. He said the earliest version of the text probably was written in the second or third century."

This is just some old texts found in the Vatican LIBRARY remember, this has not been validated in any way -- the vatican Library also contains texts from the ancient Greek and other worlds, so this does not in any way indicate the text's validity or authenticity. Furthermore, the text is an 8th century text, supposedly a copy of an earlier one -- but that "supposedly" is a conjecture by Landau.

There is no prophecy about (for or against) Mormonism in this text.

[Cronos]

Gen 32:24 doesn't puzzle me. I take it as it was written --

[24] He remained alone: and behold a man wrestled with him till morning. [25] And when he saw that he could not overcome him, he touched the sinew of his thigh, and forthwith it shrank. [26] And he said to him: Let me go, for it is break of day. He answered: I will not let thee go except thou bless me. [27] And he said: What is thy name? He answered: Jacob. [28] But he said: Thy name shall not be called Jacob, but Israel: for if thou hast been strong against God, how much more shalt thou prevail against men? [29] Jacob asked him, Tell me by what name art thou called? He answered: Why dost thou ask my name? And he blessed him in the same place. [30] And Jacob called the name of the place Phanuel, saying: I have seen God face to face, and my soul has been saved.

He is called God, ver. 28 and 30, because he represented the person of the Son of God.

This wrestling, in which Jacob, assisted by God, was a match for an angel, was so ordered (ver. 28,) that he might learn by this experiment of the divine assistance, that neither Esau, nor any other man, should have power to hurt him.-- It was also spiritual, as appeareth by his earnest prayer, urging and at last obtaining the angel's blessing.

[Cronos]

Islam was a clever way for Mo to unite the Arabian i.e. Bedo tribes. For millenia they had been under the rule of stronger Empires. By uniting they were able to conquer huge territories. Yet when they fall apart, stronger forces like the Iranis and the Turks came to prominence.

[Biggirl]

Great faith related article. This univerisity is the one that my University of CT football is going up against in the Festa Bowl on New Year’s Day.

Go UConn!!!!!!!!!!

[Elsie]

http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS397US398&q=staurolite&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1259&bih=534

[Elsie]

Watch out fer them FAIRIES!

[Elsie]

Makes me ponder Jacob/Israel in the Gen 32:24 account.

I guess...

25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man.

GOD cannot overcome MAN?

Gimme a BREAK!

[Elsie]

...is shared by a small ethnic group living there now.”

WHAT?

And OUR researchers can't find any DNA to back up OUR church's claim?

--MormonDude(I'm being to believe that these ANTIs might be onto something!)

[Elsie]

 

There is ZERO linguistic, genetic, or anthropological evidence to support such a claim.

 

Whaddya mean "no evidence"!?

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These "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story.

 

 No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim... only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

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Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

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*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

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Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

     .
 

     .
 

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What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

 

[Elsie]

Folks would CRINGE at what can be found in the INDIANAPOLIS library!

[Scythian]

Wing Dings written by a Wing Nut ...

[Elsie]

Joseph Smith IS the LORD's prophet!

Just look at the fourth line, fourth caractor...

 

 

 Who ELSE but a Prophet of GOD could have POSSIBLY known about a COMPUTER MOUSE??)

[Elsie]

[webstersII]

Salvation is available to all through Jesus now. How is one group still chosen above the others?

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“also eve ate fruit not a apple. the proaganda world twists thge scriptures to fit their own needs”

Yeah, those green grocers are corrupting our knowledge of scripture to sell more apples!

Seriously, do you have any idea why, where and when the apple became associated with Eve?

[Uri’el-2012]

Salvation is available to all through Jesus now. How is one group still chosen above the others?.

Jesus is English for Iesous in the Koine Greek from the Hebrew Yah'shua

Yah'shua means YHvH is(be) my salvation in the Hebrew.

also see:

Exodus 15:2; Psalm 18:2; Psalm 27:1; Psalm 62:1; Psalm 62:2; Psalm 62:6;
Psalm 62:7; Psalm 118:14; Psalm 119:174; Isaiah 12:2; Isaiah 46:13;
Isaiah 49:6; Isaiah 51:5; Isaiah 56:1; Isaiah 19:20; Isaiah 43:3;
Isaiah 43:11; Isaiah 45:21; Isaiah 49:26; Isaiah 60:16; Hosea 13:4

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[The Comedian]

You are a wise...............man..

I know you wanted to say "guy", but showed Yule tide restraint ;-)

Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

[webstersII]

Your quotations from the Old Testament completely miss the point I made.

[Uri’el-2012]

Your quotations from the Old Testament completely miss the point I made.

There is only ONE YHvH.

Mark 12:29 Yah'shua answered,
"The foremost is,
'HEAR, O ISRAEL!
YHvH OUR GOD IS ONE YHvH
(Deu 6:4)

There are not two gods nor three gods
nor a mother of god nor a queen of heaven.

Yah'shua is the Jewish Messiah.

Feel blessed to be permitted to be grafted in.
See Romans 11.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach