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Dear Friends in Jesus and Mary,

Greetings.

It is a fact that Catholics are leaving the Catholic Church in many countries in the world specially in India, South America, and Central America.

There has been an exodus from the Catholic Church to Non-Denominational Churches in some parts of India but specially in Brazil, Argentina, and Guatemala to mention a few.

I was on the verge of leaving the Catholic Church a few years ago till I accidentally stumbled on e-catholic 2000.

What I am trying to say is this, that I wouldn't be a Catholic Today if it was not for e-catholic 2000-- Catholics for the Third Millenium.

They deserve all the credit for keeping me in the Catholic Church.

1 posted on 10/20/2015 12:34:52 AM PDT by OrthodoxIndianCatholic
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic

“There has been an exodus from the Catholic Church to Non-Denominational Churches in some parts of India but specially in Brazil, Argentina, and Guatemala”

And if these dear souls come to know Christ and are saved when they learn the Gospel of Grace, there is overwhelming rejoicing in heaven!

Let us rejoice with heaven when the lost are found.


2 posted on 10/20/2015 12:46:36 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( "Forward lies the crown, and onward is the goal.")
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic; aMorePerfectUnion; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; BlueDragon; boatbums; caww; ...

People are better off reading the Bible than books on Catholicism.

The books he listed will teach you about Jesus and Mary, Mary, and Mary. Jesus to Mary in a 1:3 ratio?

What’s wrong with this picture?

It’s clear Catholicism is more about Mary than Jesus.

For anyone who wants a religion centered around a goddess type female figure, I guess Catholicism can’t be beat.

But for ex-Catholic who found Jesus, no amount of Mary indoctrination will convince them to return.


3 posted on 10/20/2015 12:57:18 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic

Nice list, thanks. I would suggest adding Interior Castle by St. Teresa of Jesus.


5 posted on 10/20/2015 3:50:31 AM PDT by MomwithHope (Please support efforts in your state for an Article 5 convention.)
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic

Best way to keep Catholics? Don’t have priests like this:

I was 18 years old and homeless, living in my car. It was the Chicago area in January. Overnight temps were single digits. It was cold...terribly, terribly cold.

Not knowing what else to do, at about 10pm I knocked on the rectory door of the church I had attended. The door opened, the priest who had led many of the masses I had attended standing before me. I said, “Father, I’ve got nowhere to go, can you please help me?” And his words are burned forever in my mind: “I’m sorry, no.” And he closed the door in my face.

Was the LAST time I set foot near a Catholic church.


6 posted on 10/20/2015 4:31:56 AM PDT by Axeslinger (Where has my country gone?)
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic
I want Catholics who have left the Catholic Church to read awesome and amazing "Catholic Books" posted on my Catholic Blog.

Typical blogger behavior.

"VISIT MY BLOG" uber alles.

12 posted on 10/20/2015 4:46:31 AM PDT by humblegunner (NOW with even more AWESOMENESS)
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic
Thank you for your post and it's great to see your zeal for the faith.

Although many Catholics are leaving the Church that Christ founded to follow Luther's unbiblical tradition of "the Bible alone," the Church continues to grow fairly rapidly worldwide.

In the US, Catholics are generally led away from the Church because of poor catechesis. They don't know how to answer questions posed by Protestants. Many eventually return to the Church.

We are blessed to have Catholic Answers (Catholic.com) today, which fills this great need. It's the easiest way to evangelize and catechize.

14 posted on 10/20/2015 4:52:43 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic
It is my objective and endeavour to bring Ex-Catholics back to the Catholic Church in 2015 as well as in 2016. I intend to achieve this through "Catholic Classics".

Origin of Species and The Descent of Man?

17 posted on 10/20/2015 5:32:57 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The "end of history" will be Worldwide Judaic Theocracy.)
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic

Ping for later reading


18 posted on 10/20/2015 5:47:18 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic
BRINGING EX-CATHOLICS BACK TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

I'd like to hear the story of how to KEEP the Catholics it now has!


...Pew still calculates that six Catholics leave the church for every one person who chooses to join.
 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/16/american-catholics-decline--flux-pope-francis-visit/72320496/

19 posted on 10/20/2015 5:52:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic
Dear Friends in Jesus and Mary,

O...
K...

20 posted on 10/20/2015 5:52:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic

A great six week program is “Catholics Can Come Home Again.” I helped to teach it for several years.


27 posted on 10/20/2015 6:51:59 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic
Here's the guide (team) book that we went through to determine how we wanted to teach it.


28 posted on 10/20/2015 6:54:38 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic; metmom; daniel1212
Dear Friends in Jesus and Mary,

It's always about Mary somehow. Gotta work her in there.

It's as if catholics think Jesus cannot on His own get anything done.

Did Paul ever, ever include Mary in His letters to the various churches?????

NO! Why? Because it was all about Christ to him as it should be.

Catholic worship of mary knows no ends.

40 posted on 10/20/2015 9:42:54 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic
There has been an exodus from the Catholic Church to Non-Denominational Churches in some parts of India but specially in Brazil, Argentina, and Guatemala to mention a few.

Many of these people are hunting for TRUTH...

No one will ever regret reading "Catholic Books" @ my blog. These Catholic Books help to build one up in the faith and help to strengthen one about the truths of the Catholic Faith.

Many who have left already have the truth of the Catholic religion...Yet they are still empty...They continue their search...Apparently you turned back before you got this far:

Joh_17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

1Th_2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

The real TRUTH is not in the Catholic religion...The Truth is in Jesus Christ...You have to go beyond the Catholic religion to get to the Truth...Millions of former Catholics have attested to that...

41 posted on 10/20/2015 9:49:19 AM PDT by Iscool (Izlam and radical Izlam are different the same way a wolf and a wolf in sheeps clothing are differen)
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic
It is my objective and endeavour to bring Ex-Catholics back to the Catholic Church in 2015 as well as in 2016...I happened to stumble across... 3) Secret of the Rosary. 4) Secret of Mary.... The Catholic Church is more than 2000 years old. Let us never forget that. These Catholic Classics present to us the vibrant Catholic Faith as it has been through the centuries.

Well that's not provocative:). Are we going to see RCs complaining of "Catholic bashing" when this and its presuppositions are challenged?

Here is why:

Partial list of contrasts between the New Testament church and Roman Catholicism.

Leadership

NT church

Commentary (a short summary, as by God's grace, defenders of Rome have been refuted time and time again into silence or there recourse to spitwads, as can be shown).


No apostles elected by voting.

No successors after Judas, with the only continuously perpetuated pastoral office by way of ordination being that of presbuteros/episkopos.

Peter as as non-assertive street-level leader among the 11, with no succession or preparation for one.

No corporate view of Peter as their first of supreme infallible popes in Rome.

Nowhere in the NT, interpretive of Mt. 16:18, is Peter called or described as the Rock upon which the church was built.

No leadership claiming/possessing ensured perpetual infallibility.

No leadership with unique sacrificial function, offering food as sacrifice.

No leadership distinctively titled “hiereus” (priests): only presbuteros/ episkopos (same office: Titus 1:5-7).

No leadership with unique sacrificial function, offering food as sacrifice.

The primary function of pastors was that of prayer and preaching the word of God.

No required celibacy for leadership. Most were married.

There were no apostolic successors after Judas, which was (in order to maintain foundational number of apostles (cf. Rv. 21:14) and which was by the non-political Scriptural means of casting lots. (cf. Prov. 16:33)

Peter was the initial, non-assertive street-level leader among the 11, once even listed after James (who provided the conclusive judgment in Acts 15) in Gal. 2 as one of 3 present who appeared to be pillars. To whom Rome's ensured perpetual formulaic infallibility is nowhere promised, and in contrast holy (he was) Peter was the only apostle directly publicly rebuked.

No succession for Peter or preparation for one is seen in the NT, an incongruous conspicuous omission for a cardinal doctrine, while ordination of leaders is described and taught. For the only continuously perpetuated pastoral office (unless deacons are included) by way of formal ordination was that of presbuteros (senior/elder) or episkopos (superintendent/overseer), both of which refer to those in the same office. (Titus 1:5-7)

Nowhere is the church described as looking to Peter as the first of a line of supreme infallible heads in Rome, nor told to even in any of the church epistles or in the Lord's commendations and criticisms of the 7 churches of Asia.

Nowhere interpretive of Mt. 16:18 is Peter called or described as the Rock upon which the church was built. Instead, that the LORD Jesus is the Rock (“petra”) or "stone" (“lithos,” and which denotes a large rock in Mk. 16:4) upon which the church is built is one of the most abundantly confirmed doctrines in the Bible (petra: Rm. 9:33; 1Cor. 10:4; 1Pet. 2:8; cf. Lk. 6:48; 1Cor. 3:11; lithos: Mat. 21:42; Mk.12:10-11; Lk. 20:17-18; Act. 4:11; Rm. 9:33; Eph. 2:20; cf. Dt. 32:4, Is. 28:16) including by Peter himself. (1Pt. 2:4-8)

Nowhere is leadership/magisterial office promised ensured perpetual infallibility. RCs extrapolate support for this out of promises of God's presence and preservation, but which Israel has as well. They also hold that an infallible magisterium is essential to know what is of God (writing and men) and their meaning, but which was never required before, and is contrary to how the church began.

Nowhere is leadership distinctively titled “hiereus” (priests), which distinctive title is only used for Jewish and pagan priests. Catholics try to defend the use of priests by relying on an <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_fallacy ">etymological fallacy </a>, since "priest," from old English "preost," etymologically is derived from "presbyteros," but which is not what the latter means. Instead the use of the title priests was a latter development due to imposed functional equivalence, supposing NT presbyteros engaged in a unique sacrificial ministry as a primary function, which they did not.

Nowhere is leadership even shown distributing food as part of their specific ordained function, (Acts 6:3,4) and is nowhere is the Lords' Supper shown to be led by priests conducting it, let alone offering it as a sacrifice for sins to be consumed to obtain eternal life. The command to “do this in memory of Me” is nowhere shown to be specifically and uniquely given to leadership, let alone a class titled “priests.”

The primary function of pastors was that of prayer and preaching the word of God, (Acts 6:3,4) which is said to "nourish" the souls of believers, and believing it is how the lost obtain life in themselves. (1 Timothy 4:6; Psalms 19:7;Acts 15:7-9)

Nowhere is celibacy a requirement for leadership, as in contrast marriage was the norm for pastors, include most of the apostles. Paul and Barnabas under a vow to stay single. (1Cor. 9:4; 1Tim. 3:1-7)

The Lord's Supper

The Lord's Supper is ordained as an ordinance by which that believers remember the Lord's death and show fellowship with Christ by a commemorative shared meal.

Nowhere is spiritual life obtaining by literally eating anything physical. Instead, spiritual life is obtained by hearing and believing the gospel of grace.

Nowhere, interpretive of of the gospels, is the Lord's Supper itself described as offering for sin, or to be consumed in order to obtain essential spiritual life. Instead is only described in one epistle and in which it is analogous to pagans having fellowship with their gods, not by consuming their flesh, but by the communal meal done in dedication to the object of worship.

By which believers remember the Lord's death and fellowship with Christ by a commemorative communal meal, sharing food in recognition of each other being part of the body of Christ which He purchased with His own sinless shed blood.

Only the metaphorical See here. By God's grace.

Nowhere is spiritual life obtaining by literally eating anything physical, as per transubstantiation. Spiritual life is obtained by hearing and believing the gospel of grace, which is said to "nourish" the souls of believers and build them up (1 Timothy 4:6; Acts 20:32)

Baptism

Baptism is ordained by which souls confess the Lord Jesus, identifying with Him in His death by full immersion.

It is the faith behind baptism that purifies the heart, not the act itself effecting it.

Nowhere are any infants manifestly described as being baptized.

Souls confess and identify with the Lord Jesus in baptism by full immersion, as that alone corresponds to burial (as a liquid grave) and is what the Greek word means. (Acts 8:38; Rm. 6:1ff)

It is the faith behind baptism that purifies the heart, as Peter preached and described, (Acts 10:43; 15:7-9) not the act itself effecting it. As baptism requires and evidences faith, so it is promised that those who will repent and baptized will be saved, just as whosoever shall call upon the Lord, who believe in their heart and confess with their mouth faith in the gospel are promised salvation. (Rm. 10:9-13)

Nowhere are any infants manifestly described as being baptized, the stipulated requirements for which are repentance and wholehearted faith. (Acts 2:38; 8:36,37) .

Gospel and soteriology

Preached the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, the Son of God, and forgiveness of sins and regeneration by the Spirit of God by faith, which is counted for righteousness, but which is a faith that is (normally) confessed first in baptism.

Believers are promised forgiveness of sins and regeneration by the Spirit of God by faith in the Lord Jesus who died for us and whom God raised up. As a result, their faith (a living faith, such as is confessed in baptism and following the Lord) is counted for righteousness, and the believer is washed, sanctified and justified on account of thew sinless and perfect Christ, not their own righteousness. (Rm. 3:10- 5:1; 1Cor. 6:11; Eph. 2:8,9; Titus 3:5)

The merit of works is excluded as the basis for justification, with “works of the law” usually being used as that is the epitome of salvation by merit. "If there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." (Galatians 3:21) When Abraham believed God to do what he could not do then it was counted unto him for righteousness, though he had done works before that. Likewise we must believe God to do what we cannot not do, that is, to justify ourselves by becoming good enough to be with God, which God does by imputation of righteousness by faith in the Jesus Christ the righteous.

In contrast, Catholicism teaches that the one is formally justified by his own holiness, first effected by the act of baptism, leaving the subject holy enough to be with God. Thus Rome holds that most believers must spend an indeterminate postmortem time suffering “purifying torments” in mythical “Purgatory” until the subject becomes good enough, free of character defects, to be with God (and atone for sins).

Works/holiness do have a justificatory effect, that of justifying one as being a believer, and fit to be rewarded under grace, with God rewarded faith in recognition of its works, (Mt. 25:31-40; Heb. 6:9,10; 10:35; Rv. 3:4) even though in conversion, man is both enabled and motivated (Jn. 6:44; 16:8-11; 12:32; Acts 11:18; 16:14; Eph. 2:8,9) to do what he otherwise could not and would not do, and then enables and motivates the believer to live for God. (Phil. 2:13; 1Co. 11:32)

However, believers can choose to sin, and are warned against having an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, falling from grace, drawing back into perdition, making Christ of no effect/profit, falling from grace. (Heb. 3:12; 10:38; Gal. 5:1-4) Thus God works to chasten wayward souls to repentance, lest they “be condemned with the rest of the world.” (1Co. 11:32

Afterlife

All true believers go to be with the Lord at death or at His return, the latter being the next transformative effect believers look to. After which is the only suffering believers will realize, that being the loss of rewards.

What Scripture teaches wherever it manifestly speaks about the next life, is that since believers are forgiven on account of Christ, on His merit, then all true believers presently are “accepted in the Beloved,” and made to sit together with Christ in the heavenly, (Eph. 1:6;2:6) and go to be with the Lord at death or at His return. it is always with the Lord. (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) Note in the latter case all believers were assured that if the Lord returned, which they expected in their lifetime, so would they “ever be with the Lord.” (1Thes. 4:17) though they were still undergoing growth in grace, as was Paul. (Phil. 3;2)

And which is the next transformative event believers look to, that of being conformed to Christ. (2Cor. 5:2,3; 1Cor. 15; 1Jn. 3:2)

At/after which coming ( versus purgatory, which has souls suffering upon death) believers at the judgment seat of Christ (1Cor. 3:8ff; 4:5; 2Tim. 4:1,8; Rev.11:18; Mt. 25:31-46; 1Pt. 1:7; 5:4) will gain or lose rewards based on the quality of the material they used to build the church with, which loss is only (and momentary) suffering (along with the grievous displeasure of the Lord) believers will realize after leaving this world.

Scripture also only reveals growth in grace and overcoming and prolonged suffering as being realized in this world, with its temptations and trials, (1 Peter 1:6-7; 1Jn.2:14; 5:4,5; Rv. 2.7,11,17,26; 3:5,12,21) where alternatives to submitting to God can be made (suffering itself does not make one mature) and thus it was here that the Lord Himself was made “perfect,” (Heb. 2:10) as in being “in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” (Heb. 4:15)

Scripture

Scripture is manifest as being the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God.

Scriptural substantiation in word and in power was the basis for the veracity of Truth claims.

Never supported or made laws that restricted personal reading of Scripture by laity

It is abundantly evidenced that the word of God/the Lord was normally written, even if sometimes subsequent to being spoken, and that as written, the written word of God became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God.

And which testifies (Lk. 24:27,44; Acts 17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23, etc.) to writings of God being recognized and established as being so (essentially due to their unique and enduring heavenly qualities and attestation), and thus they materially provide for a canon of Scripture (as well as for reason, the church, etc.)

Scriptural substantiation in word and in power was the basis for Truth claims, not the premise of ensured papal/magisterial infallibility, which is nowhere seen or promised nor necessary to preserve faith.

Never supported or made laws that restricted personal reading of Scripture by laity as per Rome, if available, sometimes even outlawing it when it was.

Oral tradition

Oral “tradition” was that of orally preaching Scriptural Truths, as a Sola Scriptura preacher is to do, while it also included new revelation as well as wholly inspired preaching of the word of God.

Nowhere was the veracity of oral tradition based upon the premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility.

Oral “tradition” was that of orally preaching Scriptural Truths by the whole church,(Acts 8:4) as a Sola Scriptura preacher is to do, while it also included new revelation and Divinely revealed Truths as the wholly inspired preaching word of God (which is uniquely powerful: Heb. 4:12). neither of which Rome claims to do (she claims her oral tradition is inspired, but not the written promulgation of it).

Nowhere was the veracity of oral tradition based upon the the novel and unScriptural premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility as per Rome, but Scripture was the standard by which all was tested by. (Acts 17:11)

Prayer

Prayer directly to God by the blood of Christ, who is the only heavenly intercessor between God and man.

Never prayed to any created beings in Heaven.

Nowhere in all of Scripture, with its over 200 recorded prayers, did any believer pray to anyone else in Heaven by God, who alone is shown to be able to hear and personally respond multitudinous prayers to Heaven. The Lord's own instructions on prayer was to “Our Father who art in Heaven,” to whom the Spirit in believers cries out to, never “Our Mother.”

Communication between created beings always required both to be in the same realm, even if via a vision.

Christ is taught as being the only and wholly sufficient and accessible heavenly intercessor between God and man. (1Tim. 2:5; Heb. 2:18 4:14-16)

Mary

Mary simply presented as a holy devout vessel of God, used to provide the body God had prepared for His Divine Son, whom she owed her existence to.

No prayers were made to her, while she prayed directly to the Lord, nor are many other things taught of her that are said of the Mary of Catholicism.

Mary presented as a holy vessel of God used to provide the body God had prepared, (Heb. 10:5) owing her very breath to the Son of God who was incarnated through her, (Jn. 1:1-3) and whom she was a mother to. Which Christ said all obedient believers were.

Scripture never records her as a women who never sinned, and or as a perpetual virgin despite being married (contrary to the normal description of marriage, as in leaving and sexually cleaving), nor as one who would be bodily assumed to Heaven and exalted (officially or with implicit sanction) as the Queen of Heaven, as an almost almighty demigoddess.

Scripture does not teach the Mary of Catholicism, to whom "Jesus owes His Precious Blood" to. Whose [Mary] merits we are saved by; who "had to suffer, as He did, all the consequences of sin;" whose power now "is all but unlimited," "surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven," so much that she "seems to have the same power as God," that “even God himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin” since her prayers and requests are as commands, and that "the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse," and that “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus," and who (obviously) cannot "be honored to excess."

Worship

Worship was to God alone, with such things as making supplication to other being in heaven being idolatry.

Worship was to be to God alone in spirit and in Truth, (Jn. 4:24) with ascribing uniquely Divine attributes to created beings, including the ability to hear and personally respond to prayer in Heaven, and bowing down as before them (or their representative images) and making supplication to them, constituting idolatry, (Jer. 44; Acts 7:43) even if it was an instrument used by God. (Num. 21:9; 2Ki. 18:4)

Miscl.

• “Saints” denoted all believers.

God was distinctive from that of the known God of pagans.

Did not rule over those without, nor use the sword of men for church purposes.

The NT never called a separate class of believers “saints,” which term denoted all believers.

Never taught that the deity Muslims worship (who is not as an "unknown god") is the same as theirs.

Never used the sword of men to deal with its theological dissenters, as instead disfellowship and the spiritual power was their recourse, and relegated dealing with those without the church to being outside their realm. (1Cor. 5:4,5,11-13; 1Tim. 1:20)


50 posted on 10/20/2015 11:40:11 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: OrthodoxIndianCatholic
10. (4) God chose her to be the treasurer, the administrator and the dispenser of all his graces, so that all his graces and gifts pass through her hands. Such is the power that she has received from him that, according to St Bernardine, she gives the graces of the eternal Father, the virtues of Jesus Christ, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit to whom she wills, as and when she wills, and as much as she wills.

This blasphemous mess is from The Secret of Mary

Reader of this thread, the Bible is clear.

You do not need Mary's ok for your salvation. This is a lie straight out of the Pit.

Mary does not dispense any spiritual gift to you.....the Holy Spirit does.

If you believe in Jesus as your Savior you will be saved as John records in John 3:16.

I encourage you to read the Book of John in the Bible if you want o understand who Christ is and how He, and He alone, offers you eternal life.

66 posted on 10/20/2015 1:44:03 PM PDT by ealgeone
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