Posted on 01/26/2018 7:15:49 AM PST by SeekAndFind
"If it is unbiblical to have women as pastors, how can it be biblical to have women who function in formal teaching and mentoring capacities..."
Here we go again. Theologian John Piper stirred up a hornet's nest by arguing women are not to teach men. Piper points to 1 Timothy 2:12 that churches should be led by a team of spiritual, humble, biblically qualified men.
"If it is unbiblical to have women as pastors, how can it be biblical to have women who function in formal teaching and mentoring capacities to train and fit pastors for the very calling from which the mentors themselves are excluded?" Piper writes.
Yes, 1 Timothy 2:12-13 says women should not teach or assume authority over a man. Others point to 1 Timothy 3, which lists the qualifications for bishops and deacons as reasons not to allow women in ministry. But what do we do, then, with Deborah, a prophetess and a judge who led Israel into victorious battle when a man would not take charge? What about Anna the prophetess? What about Priscilla, who traveled in ministry with her husband?
Look at Aimee Semple McPherson. What about Kathryn Kuhlman? How about Marilyn Hickey and Joyce Meyer? All of these women have been a blessing to the body of Christ, and they have all faced persecution from people who don't agree that they should speak and teach. Jesus certainly didn't prevent women from entering ministry so I am unsure as to why there is so much resistance in some camps within the modern church.
I would like to end the heated debate over women in ministry. There are too many examples in Scripture of women serving in leadership or other key roles for men to deny women a seat at the leadership table. That said, I'm not calling for affirmative action here. Church roles should be assigned by the Holy Spirit. That means leadership needs to pray and fast without preconceived notions—and without bias toward women—before they appoint people to positions.
Paul wrote, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to everyone for the common good. To one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom, to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But that one and very same Spirit works all these, dividing to each one individually as He will" (1 Cor. 12:7-11).
Paul didn't say women can't operate in spiritual gifts and I don't believe Paul intended for women to be denied opportunities to serve in various ministries, even leadership positions, within the church. I think locking women out of ministry can actually work against God at times. God is the one who calls people into ministry—men and women. If we were all obedient to the Holy Spirit in this matter, there would be much less strife and much more effectiveness in ministry for the glory of God.
It's going to take all of us laboring together to turn around our nation. Can we quit attacking women who are trying to do what God has called them to do?
-- Jennifer LeClaire former editor of Charisma magazine, senior leader of Awakening House of Prayer in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, founder of the Ignite Network and founder of the Awakening Blaze prayer movement. She is author of over 25 books.
Yet when Paul outlined the qualifications for the leaders of the church they were for men. Women were not included in the list.
“Look at Aimee Semple McPherson. What about Kathryn Kuhlman? How about Marilyn Hickey and Joyce Meyer? “
Yea. Look at ‘em. A bunch of fruitcakes.
The problem wasn’t that women aren’t qualified. The problem is that men need to step up and take those positions. Too many men are quite content to let women do everything.
Yeah, she wasn’t helping her case there.
‘There are too many examples in Scripture of women serving in leadership or other key roles for men to deny women a seat at the leadership table.’
Actually there are NO examples in scripture of women leading. Deborah went to battle with Barak, but just sat there as an observer.
As for the list of church women in modernity who have led or are leading, the world is not blessed by them. They have introduced false teaching or are awful examples of excess and peddling the gospel.
A couple of remarkable women does not break the established chain of command but maintains the status quo ..... BECAUSE it is status quo
Yeah, but they do have a lot of nice stuff.
Adam failed to teach Eve or she would have known better. Not much different today.
Charismatic theology has been infiltrated with this notion that the Spirit's work in the life of a person dictates what role they should take in the local church ... thus nullifying the Word of God.
Paul says a woman should not teach or have authority over a man ... the pastor's primary responsibility is to do both of those. He does not appeal to cultural factors for justification of this doctrine ... but to the created order. Man created first, then woman ... woman was deceived, the man was not.
Honestly ... the woman should concentrate on their God given role to teach the younger women ... once every woman has been discipled to a mature believer, and they get an A in loving their husbands ... then we can talk about a promotion.
I stand with John Piper, a giant.
What I never understand is why the Church always seems to want to conform to this world and why they constantly seek to closely contour pop culture.
Of course the church must be relevant, but I cannot tell you how many churches I have attended where there have been “jokes” about how women are superior to men, followed by the hizzahs from women and the nervous chuckles from men. Why? Why say such things to senselessly demoralize the patriarchy? Why? Because it follows popular culture and in my opinion that is wrong biblically and denies the natural ordering by God.
Women are in no manner inferior to men, as all are created in the image of God, but God has established a system set up for our own good, not to harm or to deny any.
John Piper is spot on.
I just left our previous church over this exact issue when they hired a woman Pastor. Pastor/Bishop/Elder is an exact term and position in the Bible with qualifications listed in at least two different places clearly that it is a man. Their argument is not with me, not with “current times are different”, not with “men are not doing the work”, etc. Their argument is with God and his word. I’ll take God every time. This is not anti-women. They can do any job in the world (including President) except for only 2 jobs (pastor and deacon). Those are the only 2 jobs in the whole world where God explicitly says it should be a man. I have no issue with a church hiring a Woman “Director” or any other term. But when given the term “Pastor” and/or preaches from the pulpit they have crossed the line.
LOL! These women are part of her argument FOR females in ministry?
Scripture is clear on this point. Period.
Piper is right....
...I fully support Reformed Theology
But what do we do, then, with Deborah, a prophetess and a judge who led Israel into victorious battle when a man would not take charge? What about Anna the prophetess? What about Priscilla, who traveled in ministry with her husband?
- - - - -
Well, let’s look at them:
Deborah: Lady Judges are OK but rare. There are two women in this story, Judges 4. Deborah leads the forces that cause Sisera to run in hide in Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite’s tent, where she puts a tent nail through his temples. Sisera must have really upset YHWH!
Anna the prophetess: She was just that, a prophetess. A prophet is not a teacher.
Priscilla: She is the archetypal “Preacher’s Wife”!
When women rule over the people, IT’S A CURSE!!
ISA3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
God. KING JAMES BIBLE TOUCH - KJV (Kindle Locations 27852-27854). Kindle Edition.
I have mixed feelings about it, but on the whole, I tend to side with Piper. There are probably some women who would be great pastors or spiritual leaders. But I hear too often about women pastors (or would-be priests) who want to change everything about Christianity, such as referring to God as both male & female, or simply as a “Mother”, etc., that I just don’t think it is a good idea.
I think I’ll take God’s Word.......
1 Tim. 2:12
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
“Yes, 1 Timothy 2:12-13 says women should not teach or assume authority over a man.”
Okay, Jennifer, let’s find out WHY:
For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control. (13-15)
Fundamental issue. In 2000+ years, what has changed? Nada, zero, zip. The Planet of Women has destroyed everything in its path...because FEELINGS! Paul—a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth—was right.
“Of course the church must be relevant, but I cannot tell you how many churches I have attended where there have been “jokes” about how women are superior to men, followed by the hizzahs from women and the nervous chuckles from men. Why? Why say such things to senselessly demoralize the patriarchy? Why? Because it follows popular culture and in my opinion that is wrong biblically and denies the natural ordering by God.”
I attended one church where the minister said “If mamma is not happy, nobody is happy” and everyone laughed. Then went on and said in many cases it is the man’s fault. I think Crist’s take would be Mamma is not acting like a Christian and would call her out. Ministers are scared to criticize current culture IMHO.
There are too many examples of prostitution in the Bible as well, but I do not think that practice is endorsed.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.