Do most Calvinists really know what Calvin taught about predestination?

Running Away From My Church Blog ^ | 5/25/2018 | Robert Messner

[tiredofallofit]

Well I finally got around to it – I am reading through some of the Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin. I say “some” because the complete work spans more than 1500 pages and deals with some of the most weighty and complex theological issues known to mankind. I have chosen for now to plod my way through the most controversial aspects of Calvin’s writings; the topics of predestination and election.

Most of my friends who call themselves Calvinists are eager to disassociate themselves from the doctrine of “double predestination”. They state that God has predestined some to eternal life, but they assure me that He would never send people to hell. People get there on their own, I am told. And what did Calvin teach? I ask. Usually, I receive some sort of vague answer – like how Calvin’s writings are difficult to understand or how misunderstood he is by other denominations. Ok, I get that. He was an intellectual giant – but what did he say about double predestination and if you don’t know exactly, then why do you call yourself a Calvinist?

So I decided to have a look for myself. Surprisingly, The Institutes of the Christian Religion are not so difficult to read or comprehend, despite the complexity of the topics discussed.

Calvin begins his discourse on the doctrine of predestination and election in Chapter 21 of Book 3 of his Institutes. If one just reads the title of this chapter and nothing else, he or she quickly ascertains Calvin’s view on double predestination – for the chapter is titled “OF THE ETERNAL ELECTION, BY WHICH GOD HAS PREDESTINATED SOME TO SALVATION, AND OTHERS TO DESTRUCTION.” That’s pretty clear, is it not?

But in case you still doubt his position, allow me to share with you this excerpt from Section 5 in Chapter 21:

"All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death."

He goes on to address the “arrogant” and “blasphemous” objections which are leveled at his view of predestination. And there are plenty of such objections. In typical Calvin style, he does not back down nor does he attempt to soften his message. God ordains some people to heaven and some people to hell, end of story.

“If that is what Calvin truly taught,” a Calvinist friend told me recently, “then I shouldn’t call myself a Calvinist. That’s not what I believe.”

There is no doubt that Calvin fully subscribed to the doctrine of double predestination. He invented it! Maybe it’s time for some Calvinists to revisit these Institutes of his and reevaluate their desire to affix this label on themselves.

Reference:

Calvin, John. Institutes of Christian religion. Trans. Henry Beveridge, Esq. 1599. Christian Classics Ethereal Library. Nov. 1999. 20 Sept. 2001

[Bryanw92]

>>I’m not accepting the blame for that one. You own it.

Yes I do.

[kosciusko51]

Thank you for condemning us all over the actions of one. Again, I thought you to be better than this.

[MHGinTN]

Trying to put words in my posts that I have not posted is a sign of someone who is not honest. You are spewing in the spirit of antichrist. Run along.

[MHGinTN]

Well stated.

[metmom]

It’s not just the actions of one that makes a stereotype.

I’m sorry that that offended you, but my experience with those to hold to Calvinism has generally not been positive.

I do realize that not all who hold to that doctrine are like that, like the few like you, but his behavior did not challenge my observations.

Everyone gets a chance to prove themselves in my book.

He showed what he’s about.

[tiredofallofit]

So you have no response then? And since I don’t agree with your opinion I have the spirit of the anti-Christ? That seems rather intolerant. No matter, have a blessed Memorial Day weekend.

[MHGinTN]

Why is it you leftists freaks assume since someone dismisses your little taunting bilge that we have no response? I said nothing about anything except the authority to forgive sins. You on the other hand, tried to stretch my initial response to something you derive glee in arguing over. Now run along, your father of lies is calling you.

[kosciusko51]

There are a plethora of Calvinist on this board who have treated you with nothing but respect.

I’m sorry your encounters in real life have been less than satisfactory.

[Kandy Atz]

Imagine a door into heaven and the sign on the front reads, “Whosoever will..”. Once you enter, the sign on the inside of that door reads, “Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.”

There's a lot of Truth in that illustration.

[MHGinTN]

JESUS is the door

[tiredofallofit]

I assume because you did not respond. You cannot pick and choose which authority got passed down through the church and which did not. This is my point. And where do you get that I am a leftist freak?

[Mr Rogers]

“I was a Calvinist before I knew what it meant, because I could not reckon how an all-knowing God could not know who would choose Him.”

Non-Calvinists believe God knows in advance who will or will not believe Him.

“And the elect and predestined passages did not jibe with the Arminian position.”

As taught by Calvin, the 20-ish passages about election and predestination don’t jibe with the hundreds or thousands of verses about believing, faith, trusting God, real choices made by humans, etc. However, if those handful of verses are viewed as CORPORATE election - the same sort of “election” that made Israel God’s Chosen People - then all the verses agree with each other.

I recommend:

http://evangelicalarminians.org/files/Abasciano%20On%20the%20Corporate%20Perepsective%20of%20Paul%20and%20His%20Culture%20the%20Tarnslation%20of%20Rom.%209_6b,%20and%20Corporate%20Election%20in%20Romans%209.pdf

Just as the Jews are chosen “In Abraham”, so are we chosen “In Christ”. See:

https://www.amazon.com/Elect-Son-Robert-Shank/dp/1556610920/ref=pd_sim_14_46?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1556610920&pd_rd_r=FRZ2GE5KADXFRPQ2881S&pd_rd_w=WAujK&pd_rd_wg=VSCU8&psc=1&refRID=FRZ2GE5KADXFRPQ2881S

[metmom]

I’ve seen it happen many times. I’m really surprised at your broadbrush stereotype of Calvinist.

That has been my experience which is all I stated.

Sadly, there are too few who I have seen that challenge that observation.

[metmom]

Then I am not aware that they are Calvinists as usually they don’t announce it.

I will pay more attention then.

[metmom]

So supposing you believe the Catholic position of man being granted the authority to forgive sin in lieu of God, then to whom did that authority get passed on to and how is it passed on?

Where are either of those spelled out in Scripture?

[tiredofallofit]

Is Confession just a Catholic position? I don’t think so.

If you are asking to whom Christ’s authority was passed down from his original disciples, I would suggest reading through the book of Acts.

[kosciusko51]

If i am not mistaken, the usual first person on your ping list is/was a Calvinist (And we still miss him...)

[metmom]

That’s why he’s still on.

[kosciusko51]

Thanks, but no thanks.

For what it’s worth, I personally do not know of any Calvinist who believes that non-Calvinist are not Christian, but I cannot say the converse is true.

[metmom]

I have more than you know.

And passing the responsibility off on me to support YOUR position is not an answer.

If you make the point, it’s your responsibility to support it, not someone else’s to do your work for you.

So show me using chapters and verses.