Peter as rock

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 05-30-18 | Msgr, Charles Pope

[Salvation]

Peter as rock

Question: A Protestant told me recently that Peter can’t be the rock since Jesus is described as the rock and cornerstone of the Church, and he showed me a couple of places where Jesus is described as the cornerstone and even a stumbling block to unbelievers. Is there an answer for this? — Allen Desome, Washington, D.C.

Answer: Of course Jesus, Peter and others who are called “rock” or stone are not literally chunks of stone. What we have in such attestations is the application of a metaphor. Scripture, like any lengthy document uses many metaphors, similes and analogies. Such things can be true in different ways.

In the Scriptures we see that Peter is called “the rock” by Jesus (Mt 16:18). Jesus is also called a stone (1 Pt 2:6). And the apostles and prophets are called foundation stones and Jesus as the cornerstone (Eph 2:20). The Book of Revelation describes the Twelve Apostles as foundation stones (Rev 21:14). So there are a number of “stone” references that need not be mutually exclusive.

Jesus is the deepest and surest foundation of the Church. That the Apostles, prophets and, in a special way, Peter are rock is understood in a subordinate sense. That is, they are rock and foundation for the Church on account of the grace and support of Jesus.

The Protestant to whom you refer fails to see the context and metaphorical sense of the texts and terms. He also fails to see that Jesus, while not abandoning his Church as her true head and foundation, does assign Peter a unique status to be the visible and identifiable rock on which the Church will be built. Peter (and his successors) is the rock, but he does not stand in midair. He is supported by Christ and his grace and affirmed by him as the visible rock and head of the Church. The Protestant approach is to see the Church as invisible. But Jesus did not establish an invisible Church. It is visible and with a visible rock and head: Peter and his successors.

[Elsie]

For the meantime, we depend on people trained in the text languages to remedy contentions on doctrinal matters, through the method of expository teaching.

I agree.

And i'll let the various 'translators' fight in the background while I still have the right to use any of them as I see fit.

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I think you're neglecting prayer and spiritual discernment, as well as having the Bible explain itself.

This has worked quite well; hasn't it!

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The reason them other guys don't agree with ME is because...
...of a lack of prayer and spiritual discernment. As well as using the WRONG translation.

[Elsie]

My answer is that you are asking the wrong question and in the wrong way that imputes a motive, which you deny.

Show me MOTIVE!

[Elsie]

... tends to personalize things in which you try to make your object look like a fool...

I see.

[Elsie]

Genuine churches of the one holy catholic and apostolic Church the Messiah built have angels and candlesticks.

And are attended by True Scotsmen as well.

[Elsie]

They need to do repentance and works (works are specifically mentioned 12 times across all the churches), just as the Messiah told their angels.

'specially them 7 in Revelation.

[Elsie]

... do you mean the Baptist Bible Fellowship and/or the Bible Baptist Fellowship?

Or the SSPX or Vatican 12 group?

[Elsie]

VBS week is crazy!

AMEN!!

[Elsie]

As I previously indicated, each corrective letter mentioned in Rev. 1-3 were addressed, not to the churches, but to a particular ordained individual, a messenger of the church which he was influencing.

HMMMmmm...

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Revelation 2:2,8,12,18

 

2 “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:

 

8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

 

12 “To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:

 

18 “To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:

 

Revelation 3:3,7,14

 

3 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write:

 

7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

 

14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

I'd like to see the GREEK that describes this person.

[Elsie]

The communion of 14 or 15 regional churches that is the Orthodox Church does not submit to the authority of the Pope.

Heck!

From what I've read here on FR; most of our Catholic freepers don't either!!

[metmom]

OK, so a serious question.

How can they be in *full communion* if they refuse to acknowledge the authority of the pope?

I’ve posted before some of what the church fathers have stated about submitting to the authority of the pope, that it’s necessary for salvation.

If they don’t submit, then, they are not saved according to those teachings.

So how can they be in full communion when they don’t accept all of the teachings?

Doesn’t *full communion* imply and mean complete agreement with the church’s teachings?

[Mark17]

I find it interesting that those who insist that the Holy Spirit inspired the NT in Greek also insist that the Holy Spirit did not inspire some of the OT books written in Greek.

Which books were those bro? I thought ALL the OT books were written in Hebrew. I don’t think there was even one, that was originally written in Greek. If I am not mistaken, the Septuagint, was a Hebrew to Greek translation.

[Mark17]

The “Petros” vs. “petra” is SO clear. Elementary, really. But if someone wants to create a cult, I guess it’s easy enough to pull something out of the air and run with it.

Yep, there are cults everywhere. I like to immediately cut through all other stuff, and simply ask people, what is your plan of salvation? It’s not that other issues are not important, but the only thing that matters at all, is whether someone goes to Heaven or Hell.

[Fantasywriter]

+1

[Mark17]

Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.[1]

Dude had the other guy’s body thrown into the Tiber? I knew there was a reason why I have no desire to swim in it. 👎

[Mark17]

2: Indoctrination/teaching from a young age is difficult to overcome too.

Some of us, however, did indeed overcome it. 👍😁😇

[Elsie]

 

 

 

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Worldly church. Worldly leaders. Worldly rituals.

[metmom]

By the grace of God.

[ealgeone]

The two that I was able to at least see acknowledged were the immaculate conception and the assumption of Mary.

YOu'd think they might jot those down somewhere.

And what are the consequences of NOT believing them? IOW, if someone does not acknowledge them, does it affect their salvation?

The Roman Catholic has to believe this per the proclamation or else.

Hence, if anyone shall dare — which God forbid! — to think otherwise than as has been defined by us, let him know and understand that he is condemned by his own judgment; that he has suffered shipwreck in the faith; that he has separated from the unity of the Church; and that, furthermore, by his own action he incurs the penalties established by law if he should are to express in words or writing or by any other outward means the errors he think in his heart.http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9ineff.htm

[metmom]

Someone quite graciously posted a list of infallibly declared teachings of Catholicism that all Catholics are bound by to obey.

https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3661318/posts?page=21#21