Methodist university presidents call on denomination to amend LGBTQ policies

RNS ^ | 1/10/2019 | Yonat Shimron

[laweeks]

Totally done with the Methodists since they can’t find any Biblical prohibitions against abortion and homosexuality. I guess they don’t want to offend anyone . . . well, they offended me.

[xzins]

And, she ventured, that’s what John and Charles Wesley, the 18th-century founders of Methodism, would have wanted.

That is just an insane, totally anti-historical, anti-biographical comment. The Wesleys would have never approved of lbgtq. Never. The denomination will be decided by end of March. Any plan other than an amicable split will be all out abandonment of historic Christianity.

[AppyPappy]

The more they talk about it, the more people leave. We left over it. The problem became that the church could not read through the entire Bible because there were too many parts that offended them. The non-denom church we attend now did a sermon series on Romans. The UMC church we attended could not do that.

[DouglasKC]

Traditional Christianity continues its full-blown Exodus from Christianity.

[foreverfree]

One hopes a Methodist named Tom Landry is wincing in his grave...

ff

[Cronos]

They are mixing up inclinations and acting on it. Many hetersexual men and women feel lust for persons other than their spouse. But ACTING on that is wrong.

We sometimes may feel angry enough to KILL someone, but acting on that is wrong.

The feeling, the inclination is part of our original stain, the falling away from God, i.e. the Original Sin

But acting on it... no

If someone is called to the Ministry of the Methodist Church, they should call themselves a Christian and a Methodist. Anything else is irrelevant - whatever "race", "ethnicity", "language", "orientation" - who cares. And a person called needs to be told they should strive to RESIST temptation, not that temptation is "to be included"

idiots

And I can see the leftist hovering around the UMC to kill it off and then focus on everyone else.

What a tragedy for Christendom

[xzins]

Amen.

The 2 plans likely to win are the 1. Traditional or the 2. One church.

The first will continue tis untenable warring within the denomination. The 2nd will allow each congregation to choose whether it’s lgbtq or not. It’s dressed up in “choice” but it’s total abdication...A denomination that now fully accepts lbgtq.

So, without a path for churches to depart with their property and finances, this denomination is dead.

[Cronos]

That is incredibly sad. Is there nothing else that can be done?

[Albion Wilde]

In case there are any questions where John Wesley would stand on the issues roiling the UMC, he wrote or edited around 400 publications and his views can and should be researched, if not by the congregation, surely by the bishops and pastors. I cannot recall ever hearing a teaching about Wesley's theology in any UMC except once, a side note in passing. This is a shameful trading by the so-called UMC on the name of a form of Christian practice taught by Wesley, a deeply devoted Christian teacher and Biblical scholar. The UMC and Methodism suffer for not having codified Wesley's teachings into a catechism, and requiring its instruction for all members who call themselves "Methodists."

Here are several passages (excerpted by me) from Wesley's tract "The Character of a Methodist", included in his compendium volume of sermons and tracts, A Plain Account of Christian Perfection, first published in 1766.

A Methodist is one who loves the Lord with all his heart, with all his soul, with all his mind, and with all his strength...

And he who hath this hope, thus full of immortality, "in everything giveth thanks," ...knowing this (whatsoever it is) is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning him. From Him therefore he cheerfully receives all, saying, "Good is the will of the Lord"; and whether He giveth or taketh away, equally blessing the name of the Lord. Whether in ease or pain, whether in sickness or health, whether in life or death, he giveth thanks from the ground of the heart to Him who orders it for good; into whose Hand he hath wholly committed his body and soul, "as into the hands of a faithful Creator"...

For indeed he "prays without ceasing"...

And loving God, he "loves his neighbor as himself"...

For he is "pure in heart." Love has purified his heart from envy, malice, wrath, and every unkind temper. It has cleansed him from pride, whereof only "cometh contention"; and he hath now "put on... mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering," And indeed all possible ground for contention, on his part, is cut off. For...he "loves not the world, nor any of the things of the world"; but "all his desire is unto God, and to the remembrance of His Name."

Agreeable to this his one desire [is] "to do, not his own will, but the will of Him that sent him." His one intentiona at all times and in all places is, not to please himdself, but Him whom his soul loveth... There is not a motion in his heart but is according to [God's] will. Every thought that arises points to Him, and is in obedience to the law of Christ.

And the tree is known by its fruits. For, as he loves God, so he "leeps His commmandments"; not only some, or most of them but all, from the least to the greatest... Whatever God has forbidden, he avoids; whatever God has enjoined, he does... now that He has set his heart at liberty. It is... his daily crown of rejoicing, to do the will of God on earth, as it is done in heaven.

All the commandments of God be accordingly keeps, and that with all his might; for his obedience is in proportion ot his love, the source fom whence it flows... All the talents he has, he constantly employs according to his Master's will; every power and faculty of his soul, every member of his body...

* * *

Only by twisting and wringing and distorting the plain and clear meaning of words can Christians calling themselves "Methodists" claim that Wesley or that God Himself would bless LGBTQ behaviors, or that such persons get a pass if they believe they were "born that way." Our bodies are not ours, but God's. He has a design for living in community, and our efforts should be to honor the sex into which we are born and live up to its fulfillment in marriage or in celebacy as best we are able, for the good of our entire community. Wesley clearly preached and taught "death to self", not self-indulgence, certainly as regards sexual behavior, among any other human behaviors.

As to the continual fighting and squabbling at the Conferences due to the tantrums of the sexual revolutionaries, Wesley's words should apply: "indeed all possible ground for contention, on his part, is cut off."

Here is Wesley's "Covenant Prayer", for renewal of the believer's covenant with God, which also makes Wesley' view of "self" quite clear:

Traditional
I am no longer my own, but Thine.
Put me to what Thou wilt, rank me with whom Thou wilt.
Put me to doing, put me to suffering.
Let me be employed for Thee or laid aside for Thee,
exalted for Thee or brought low for Thee.
Let me be full, let me be empty.
Let me have all things, let me have nothing.
I freely and heartily yield all things
to Thy pleasure and disposal.
And now, O glorious and blessed God,
Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
Thou art mine, and I am Thine.
So be it.
And the covenant which I have made on earth,
let it be ratified in heaven.
Amen.

Modern:
I am no longer my own, but Yours.
Put me to what You will, rank me with whom You will;
put me to doing, put me to suffering;
let me be employed for You, or laid aside for You,
exalted for You, or brought low for You;
let me be full, let me be empty,
let me have all things, let me have nothing:
I freely and wholeheartedly yield all things
to Your pleasure and disposal.
And now, glorious and blessed God,
Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
You are mine and I am Yours.
So be it.
And the covenant which I have made on earth,
let it be ratified in heaven.
Amen.

[xzins]

Not really. Our bishops are lbgtq supporters for the most part

[a fool in paradise]

The sex positive agenda doesn’t give a flying fig about ‘born that way’. This is why they embrace gender fluidity.

Their stated goal is to end moral judgments regarding sexual pairings of ANY kind. ‘Do’ your neighbor’s wife. ‘Do’ your cousin.

They consider abstinence an evil because they belive it is wrong to supress a sexual desire.

[xzins]

Yes, Albion, you are correct. John, nor Charles, nor any of the early Methodists would have viewed lgbtq as anything other than depravity.

[AppyPappy]

The liberals want Tolerance but they will not tolerate dissent.
The liberals want Compromise but they will not compromise.
That’s why you can’t deal with them. They don’t have a foundation.

[Pollster1]

Only by twisting and wringing and distorting the plain and clear meaning of words can Christians calling themselves "Methodists" claim that Wesley or that God Himself would bless LGBTQ behaviors, or that such persons get a pass if they believe they were "born that way."

I was born the way I am too; we all were. The Bible says that certain desires of mine are sinful. My animal side says that satisfying those desires would be pleasurable. It's my choice which side I listen to. We all have that choice. Those of us who are even a little wise defer to God's infinite wisdom when making those decisions. There would be no point in the Bible giving us guidance unless that guidance changed our behavior, i.e., encouraged us to go against our desires in some situations.

[Jumper]

A hundred years ago you might have heard an argument that Satan can be responsible for insanity or even Sin; today the insane spent all their time destroying the country that the people who work and live, have no time to worry about - but the insanity is either of man or Satan.

[Tudorfly]

Well done. Thanks. God bless you and your family.

[Albion Wilde]

And also yours, FRiend.

[Tudorfly]

Leviticus 18:20-30

20: And you shall not lie sexually with your neighbor’s wife and so make yourself unclean with her.

21: And you shall not give any of your children to offer them to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD.

22: You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

23: And you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is perversion.

24: Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean,

25: and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.

26: But you shall keep my statues and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you

27: (for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean),

28: lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you.

29: For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people.

30: So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make ourselves unclean by them: I am the LORD your God.