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Luther, the Reformation and democracy
moadoph.gov.au ^ | 10/16/2019 | Dr Barry York

Posted on 10/16/2019 5:53:55 AM PDT by Gamecock

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To: MHGinTN; circlecity; mostly_lies
Thanks to all for your thoughts about Romans 2.

Yes, I was playing with Matthew 7:16, with a practical understanding of human nature, the ego and my own abilities to fool myself.

Forgive me and my ignorance about such things. I’m a believer, but not a “belong-er” to any branch or whatever.

I’m just figuring things out as I go and hopefully I’ll figure out where I fit one of these days.

And, with regards to my own “works”, deeds, acts, fruits, etc., I do think my behaviors, and the intent behind them, are one of the ways He knows me, well, IF He knows me, not sure how that works, and are also how or a standard by which He will judge me.

For those reasons, and because it’s sooo easy for me to be a hypocrite without knowing it, I think it’s good to remind my self that confession truly is good for the soul.

121 posted on 10/16/2019 6:05:36 PM PDT by GBA (Here in the matrix, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.)
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To: GBA

The broken and contrite spirit God will in no wise cast out. God is the rewarder of them who diligently seek Him. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth man confesseth to salvation.


122 posted on 10/16/2019 6:28:44 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: MHGinTN
Okay, but ... from King James’ John 14:
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, “Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?”

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

I’m still working on what the above looks like when I do it.

Running through my mental checklist of past events, I think I have a lot of repenting to make up if I’m going to pass this class.

123 posted on 10/16/2019 7:02:41 PM PDT by GBA (Here in the matrix, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.)
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To: MHGinTN

Thanks.


124 posted on 10/16/2019 7:22:39 PM PDT by jocon307
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To: Alberta's Child
I am not here to bash Protestants, but I will point out two obvious flaws in any religious institution with a “democratic” foundation: 1. They simply don’t work. The modern-day evidence for this is that there are more than 40,000 “Christian” sects. There may as well be a million, once you acknowledge that there can be more than one.

If you really don't want to bash Protestants, perhaps you should stop using the easily and often disproven here canard about there being 40,000 - one million "Christian" sects. It is false.

125 posted on 10/16/2019 7:39:17 PM PDT by boatbums (God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. (Hebrews 11:6))
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To: Mom MD
For all his flaws one thing ai appreciate about Luther was his ability to shred the pompouswith one phrase.

Would I be correct in assuming, it was “the just shall live by faith?” 😁

126 posted on 10/16/2019 11:27:59 PM PDT by Mark17 (Once saved, always saved. I do not care if some do not like that. It will NEVER be my problem)
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To: mostly_lies
I believe most RCs are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I am always struggling with how barbed my replies should or should not be.

How can they be brothers and sisters in Christ if/when they REFUSE to become born again??? In my experience most have a desire for Jesus Christ in their head, not their heart...Most believe they are Christians because someone dropped some water on them when they were born...And again, I find it almost impossible to engage a Catholic in a discussion about Jesus Christ...They have no interest at all...

I think it's wise to let them know that if they make it to purgatory, they aren't ever getting out...

127 posted on 10/17/2019 1:38:06 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Salvation
All about Luther, a former priest who became a heretic.

Do you know why your religion calls Martin Luther a heretic??? For the very same reason the same religion called Paul the apostle a heretic...

Act_24:14  But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Like Luther, they called Paul a heretic for believing all thing in the bible, the scriptures, the written words of God...Sound familiar???

I consider it a blessing to be considered a heretic by the Catholic religion...

128 posted on 10/17/2019 1:44:27 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: GBA
I don’t know about “salvation”, but according to Romans 2:6-9, what you do in life, aka “works” or “deeds”, is of critical importance.
Who (God) will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
I tell Him what I believe, but God can actually see what I believe just by watching what I choose do and how I choose do it.
By my works, He knows me. I hope my words and works are in agreement with each other and with Him, or close enough, or I really am doomed!

You should have continued on:

Rom 2:13  (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 

And then,

Jas_2:10  For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I'd say by that, you're probably doomed...

What many don't seem to get is that early on in the ministry, Jesus came only to the Jews...He was to be THEIR Messiah...There was no Gentile church...It was to be a Jewish church...And those people were still under the law...

When those Jews rejected Jesus, and killed him, he was resurrected and came back because he still had not given up on his people...He set out to do something to draw them near, to make them jealous...

Rom 11:11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 

And the way he did this was to offer to Gentiles, the heathen of the earth the same thing he offered his chosen Jews, but even better things...He would give those Gentiles everything WITHOUT the works of the law by giving each man/woman Grace (that is, unmerited favor)...

Yet to punish the Jews, he would blind them to what he was doing to a large degree til he accomplished his mission, until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled...

Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
  Rom 11:2  God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 
Rom 11:3  Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 
Rom 11:4  But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
  Rom 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
  Rom 11:6  And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 
Rom 11:7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded 
Rom 11:8  (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. 

When this started happening, from going from Jews to Gentiles and from being under the law to under Grace, it required a transition period...This transition period is recorded n the book of Acts and some others and ends in the time of the scriptures you posted in Romans 2...Those people in Romans 2 were still under the law...So wander on down to Romans Chapter 3...

Rom 3:21  But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 

The transition is now complete...We are fully under Grace and not the law...

Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 

Quite a contrast from Chapter 2, eh???

And of course one has to read around those scriptures I posted to get the entire context but NO, you are not doomed if you put your full faith in Jesus Christ that he has done it ALL for you...

129 posted on 10/17/2019 2:20:34 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Mark17

That’s a good one. He also had a quick wit. Once in a debate he opined that his opponent (in the middle of a long winded tirade) planned on winning by boring him to death....


130 posted on 10/17/2019 2:58:54 AM PDT by Mom MD
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To: Iscool

one may no more “refuse to be born again” than he may refuse to have blood pressure.

This whole thing is about grace. Grace makes us recipients.

You can’t buy half the cow and walk it home, here.


131 posted on 10/17/2019 5:49:23 AM PDT by mostly_lies
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To: ealgeone
You've heard of Greek before....right? It's the language the NT was written in.

Yep. spent five years studying it. It is also my experience that the "Greek" claimed by most internet warriors consists of looking up words in Strong's concordance and an interlinear. the word "saints" actually has nothing to do with character. It instead refers to a status of being set apart, or dedicated for service to.
132 posted on 10/17/2019 5:54:01 AM PDT by mostly_lies
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To: jocon307

I grew up Methodist, but have been Orthodox for thirty years. It was the right move for me. But I have always appreciated Luther. Without the positive cultural and political changes that developed from the Reformation, we would have a much different world.


133 posted on 10/17/2019 6:24:11 AM PDT by Southside_Chicago_Republican (The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.)
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To: metmom

The first thing I wrote said exactly what was wrong, the writer had a completely erroneous definition of an indulgence. So go bother someone else that gives a damn.


134 posted on 10/17/2019 8:46:40 AM PDT by allwrong57
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To: allwrong57

If you don’t give a d*** then why did you post on this thread?


135 posted on 10/17/2019 9:31:31 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Iscool
Thanks for taking the time to post all of those quotes!

Doing such things is almost always worth the time, even if we are the only ones who benefit from the effort and research!

I am a believer in Jesus, His Father and the Holy Spirit, too!

I hope my acts throughout each day offer support for this statement.

I am also a wretched sinner who is more prone to sinning than walking in His Footsteps.

I know my acts each day throughout my life provide support for this statement.

I work to be more aware of His Commandments, but I am grateful for His Mercy and I ask Him to have mercy on me, the sinner, quite often.

He may know my heart, but it is by my actions that He, the rest of the world and I have some verification, too.

Jonah was required to act. His actions in refusal said a lot about his heart, as did his eventual capitulation.

Many of my acts are indicative of my struggle with the spirit of evil, which I’ve read, are

136 posted on 10/17/2019 9:46:26 AM PDT by GBA (Here in the matrix, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.)
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To: Iscool
Oops... clicked Post instead of unchecking the box...

Many of my acts are indicative of my struggle with the spirit of evil, which I’ve read, are ...

... “a spirit of lethargy, apathy, rebellion, relentless pride that made you to apostatize, keeping you away from Me and closer to Death!”

That is a quote from this:

The Day of My Return is nearer than you think
January 31, 2019

For what it’s worth.

137 posted on 10/17/2019 9:55:35 AM PDT by GBA (Here in the matrix, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.)
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To: Iscool
Oops... clicked Post instead of unchecking the box...

Many of my acts are indicative of my struggle with the spirit of evil, which I’ve read, are ...

... “a spirit of lethargy, apathy, rebellion, relentless pride that made you to apostatize, keeping you away from Me and closer to Death!”

That is a quote from this:

The Day of My Return is nearer than you think
January 31, 2019

For what it’s worth.

138 posted on 10/17/2019 9:57:00 AM PDT by GBA (Here in the matrix, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.)
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To: metmom

go harass someone else, I’ve got better things to do than listen to your drivel


139 posted on 10/17/2019 11:44:58 AM PDT by allwrong57
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To: mostly_lies
one may no more “refuse to be born again” than he may refuse to have blood pressure.
This whole thing is about grace. Grace makes us recipients.

Nope...Grace allows us to be recipients...Not many take advantage of it...Grace comes to ALL people...

140 posted on 10/17/2019 12:34:52 PM PDT by Iscool
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