Posted on 02/24/2020 4:36:36 PM PST by grumpa
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17)
Rapture is a common topic among Christians, but the word itself is actually not found in the Bible. The term is derived from the Latin translation of the Greek word HARPAZO (caught up, verse 17), the Latin word being RAPIERE.
There are 3 different views of the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18):
1. MILLENNIALIST. This view is popular among some evangelicals and pentecostals. It is relatively new to the church, becoming popular in the 1800s. In summary, Christ will return to literally snatch living believers off the earth to avoid the Great Tribulation. Then believers (living and dead) will be reunited back on earth for a literal thousand-year utopia. Among other problems with this view is that Jesus said that the Great Tribulation would be in HIS GENERATION, and that believers could escape the Great Tribulation by fleeing to the mountains (Matthew 24:9, 16, 21, 29, 34). John said that he was living in the Tribulation when he was writing Revelation (Revelation 1:9; 2:9). Revelation says it is about events that MUST SHORTLY TAKE PLACE (Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6-20).
2. RESURRECTIONIST. Perhaps the most prominent view in Christian history is that 1 Thessalonians is about a future resurrection (to heaven, with no millennial interlude). Besides being short on careful exegesis, this view also ignores the context of imminence in this passage. Either these events happened when Paul expected themwhile some of them were still alive, or Paul was a false prophet.
3. PRETERIST. This all happened in the past just as Paul anticipated. Jesus would return in judgment against Old Covenant Israel in AD 70 just as God came in judgment in the Old Testament. Jesus would grant relief to his persecuted saints (2 Thessalonians 1:6-8, ref. 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16) and remain with us forever (1 Thessalonians 4:17; Revelation 21:3). Only the preterist view honors the time statements and careful exegesis. I will show that this view has the most biblical support.
There are three important Greek words in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18: HARPAZO (rapture), AER (air), and APANTESIS (meet). The word HARPAZO does not necessarily mean physical removal. It can mean to seize on, claim for ones self. An interesting example of another use of HARPAZO in the New Testament is 2 Corinthians 12:2-6. Paul tells how he was caught up [HARPAZO] to the third heaven. We do not know exactly what happened in this experience; perhaps Paul was in a trance (Acts 10:9; 22:17). But we do know that Paul remained on earth to tell the story. The term caught up in these contexts is closer to what we might say, I was so caught up in the novel that I saw myself in the story.
Interestingly, there are two words for air in GreekAER and OURANOS. OURANOS means the upper atmosphere, while AER means the lower atmosphere, thus the air that we breathe. Paul specifically used AER in this passage. AER may have a spiritual connotation (see Ephesians 2:2). Your feet dont have to leave the ground to be in the AER.
When Paul said Christians would meet (APANTESIS) the Lord in the air, this means the exact opposite of what modern rapturists think. The destination is earth! The Greek word APANTESIS is found in only two other places in the New Testament. In Acts 28:15, believers from Rome went out to "meet" Paul and escort him back to their city. Similarly, in Matthew 25:1-10, the virgins went out to "meet" the bridegroom and escort him back to the wedding hall. Thus, the image evoked in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 is that of believers being spiritually caught up to go out to meet and escort Jesus back to earth to begin his rule on earth. The idea of believers being physically transported to heaven in a literal rapture is foreign to the text.
One cannot read 1 Thessalonians 4 and miss the fact that Paul was teaching that the events he was describing would HAPPEN TO HIS CONTEMPORARIES. It would make no sense to the Thessalonians for Paul to be describing events that would happen thousands of years later.
Did Jesus ever say anything about a rapture? Actually, Jesus prayed AGAINST any rapture in the sense of physical removal! In John 17:15 we see his prayer to the Father, I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. If Jesus asked for such, would the Father deny his request?
The Bible teaches that Jesus would return in some sense to CLAIM VICTORY (Romans 16:20; Revelation 12:7-12; 20:10), to REDEEM HIS PEOPLE (Luke 21:28; Romans 8:18-23; 13:11-12; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; Hebrews 1:14; 9:26-28; 1 Peter 1:3-21; Revelation 12:10), and to BE WITH US forever (Revelation 21:3). And it would happen while some of the first-century disciples WERE STILL ALIVE (Matthew 10:23; 16:27-28; 26:64; Luke 21:22, 27, 28, 32, 36; etc.). Indeed, there are over 100 passages in the New Testament that set the timeline for the fulfillment of the eschatological events as the first century. The rapture is describing these same events.
Revelation teaches that the dwelling place of God is WITH MAN (Revelation 21:1-7). Futurists must take the position that we worship an absentee Lord. The preterist view delights in the fact that Jesus is with us now and forever, ruling the world from heaven.
Here we go again. When you see a thread about eschatology posted by grumpa, sound the alarm: another preterist alert.
I do agree that there is no secret rapture that removes believers and leaves others (to fend for themselves) for 7 years or whatever. If we’re supposed to be the light of the world, why in the world would God remove us as witnesses to the unbeliever?
Because God's church is being removed from earth before the outpouring of wrath, detailed in Revelation.
All three cant be right. And no one can claim so with any authority. Ahhh the joys of Protestantism
Thanks for the alert!
I’m a Pan-Millenialist- in the end, it all pans out.
Is Francis a legit pope?
Has there been a legit pope since 1958?
Should the Roman Catholic be a Vatican 1 or a Vatican 2 Roman Catholic?
Ahhhh, the joys of Roman Catholicism.
Like He did for the first three hundred years of Christian history when Christians were routinely tortured to death for entertainment, right?
Boomers were the first generation who in large numbers started to lap up the BS about a Rapture when solid gold Huey helicopters whisk middle class American Christians off of their roofs to a waiting aircraft carrier above the earth and they turn around and wonder where the younger folks got their snowflake inclinations.
I bet that with both 1988 and 2018 now past it's tougher to sell escapism. Gone are the days when a guy could just pump out a "new revised" edition whenever he wanted a new Ferrari.
Like He did for the first three hundred years of Christian history when Christians were routinely tortured to death for entertainment, right?
No. Absolutely not.
The rapture and outpouring of *Gods* wrath is not to be compared to persecution, which Christ foretold.
Jesus did not say HIS generation...He said THIS generation...
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
I can't tell what propels you to post articles like this; whether it is deception or just spiritual blindness...I suspect it is deception since you twist so many things that are obvious...
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Lord's Day...No doubt John was launched ahead in the spirit to the day of the return of Jesus on the earth...The 2nd Coming...John did a little time travel...The Great Tribulation did not take place during John's time on Patmos...
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
When was John or anyone else made to be a king??? It didn't happen...Not in John's lifetime nor yours...It won't happen till after the Tribulation is over...
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
John is speaking of the kingdom of Heaven...A physical kingdom which does not exist nor did exist when John lived on the Isle of Patmos...
You may note that John claims he is no longer on the Isle of Patmos...He WAS on the Isle of Patmos...John is brought into the future...
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia;
The seven churches Jesus is speaking of are churches during the Great Tribulation Period...
Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
John is to write the things that he sees which ARE...Present tense...That present tense is in the future...During the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ...He is to write of the PAST; the events of the Great Tribulation; and to write of the things to come, the events after the Reign of Christ on earth...And how do we know this is true??? Because that's what the book of Revelation is written about...
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
There is not a historical record any where that this event ever took place...EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM...Didn't happen...He didn't come spiritually because every eye WILL see him...So we of course know it is a future event...
3. PRETERIST. This all happened in the past just as Paul anticipated. Jesus would return “in judgment” against Old Covenant Israel in AD 70 just as God “came” in judgment in the Old Testament. Jesus would grant relief to his persecuted saints (2 Thessalonians 1:6-8, ref. 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16) and remain with us forever (1 Thessalonians 4:17; Revelation 21:3). Only the preterist view honors the time statements and careful exegesis. I will show that this view has the most biblical support.
Oh bunk...Where is the rest of the book of Revelation...Where's the Millennial Reign??? What happened to all the Old Testament prophecies about the Millennial Reign???
Jesus granted relief to his persecuted Saints??? The Apostles were all murdered...The churches were ultimately run out of the area...
When Paul said Christians would “meet” (APANTESIS) the Lord in the air, this means the exact opposite of what modern rapturists think. The destination is earth!
You have posted so much nonsense I can't comment on all of it...
But NO, not for the church...
Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
The destination of the church is to heaven...To the Wedding...After the Wedding the church returns to the Earth...
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And that is the church returning to Earth being led by Jesus for the 2nd Coming of Jesus...
In the good old days it was the pre-mil/pre-trib folks that were the laughing stock of the evangelical world. It lasted right up until the advent of the modern preterist movement.
The word HARPAZO does not necessarily mean physical removal. It can mean to seize on, claim for ones self.
euphoria
1. An excited state of joy; a feeling of intense happiness.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/euphoria
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17)
cloud nine (uncountable)
1.(idiomatic) Often in the phrase on cloud nine: a state of bliss, elation or happiness.
[quotations]
He was on cloud nine for days after she agreed to marry him.
2.(idiomatic, possibly nonstandard) A state of fantastic or impractical dreaming or thinking.
[quotations]
1970 July 16, W. E. Cushen, The Management of Change...
Etymology
The origin of sense 1 (a state of bliss) is uncertain; however, the following etymology has been suggested:
The first edition of the International Cloud Atlas (1896),[1] which defined ten types of cloud, described the ninth type as the cumulonimbus which rises to 10 km (6.2 miles), the highest a cloud can be.[2]
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cloud_nine#English
Cumulonimbus (from Latin cumulus, "heaped" and nimbus, "rainstorm") is a dense, towering vertical cloud,[1] forming from water vapor carried by powerful upward air currents. If observed during a storm, these clouds may be referred to as thunderheads. Cumulonimbus can form alone, in clusters, or along cold front squall lines. These clouds are capable of producing lightning and other dangerous severe weather, such as tornadoes and hailstones. Cumulonimbus progress from overdeveloped cumulus congestus clouds and may further develop as part of a supercell. Cumulonimbus is abbreviated Cb.
Symbol:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulonimbus
"Be of good cheer, your sins are forgiven!"
(Have a Nice Day!)
"And then came Amalek..."
(the killjoy)
Psalm 72.17. May his name endure for ever; may his name be continued as long as the sun; may men be blessed in him; may all nations call him happy:
Johnny Cash - Keep On the Sunny Side
Isaiah 40:3
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
The Church the Body of Christ had a definite BEGINNING. And a definite Gospel. Of the Grace of God. And a definite Apostle for building that Church. Paul. And a definite time for the dispensation of the GRACE of God, the forming and completion of the Body of Christ to happen. Before the wrath of God is poured out on an unbelieving, in accepting world. That time will be ended by the Rapture of the Body of Christ. After that God will turn His attention back to Israel and the Gospel of the Kingdom where Christ the Messiah will return to earth and set up His Millennial Kingdom.
He ain't doing a very good job. Or perhaps you're just easily satisfied.
You said the seven churches spoken of in Revelation are churches IN THE TRIBULATION.
Thank you for that. I haven’t seen anyone day that in a very long time. It’s one of the true things that not very many people want to believe
What Scriptures led you to your opinion? Where do you go for your numbers/percentages facts?
If its not in the Bible, part of Scripture, then why would any non-Catholic/Protestant be interested in it?
That is the problem with grumpa posts...
It's not secret, for one thing. Lots of people will be noticed to be missing.
The other thing is, God is leaving witnesses, 144,000 of them and the Great Tribulation is about God's judgment on an unbelieving world, not about the age of grace.
And yet, even in that, many will come to know Him.
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